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  liberty league a pyramid scam heres proof please read the entire article I found

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Author Topic:   liberty league a pyramid scam heres proof please read the entire article I found
lexus777
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posted December 12, 2004 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lexus777   Click Here to Email lexus777     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote

From the March 2003 Idaho Observer:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Liberty League or Liberty Scam?

Adam Samuels was prompted to join Liberty league after reading articles about it in The Idaho Observer. He became one of Idaho's two district directors and began promoting Liberty League. He then found out more about its marketing program and how it really works. We are publishing his article because well-intended investigations and inquiries into Liberty League have raised some serious questions -- and answers are simply not forthcoming. Anyone from Liberty League is welcome to contact The I0 and offer alternate explanations to what Adam has found.

by Adam Samuels

We live in an age when all our efforts to turn around the tyranny and oppression of government seem to be in vain. Whenever something comes along to improve our condition it deserves a look. The ideas espoused by Liberty League have great promise. Like any good idea, to get anywhere, ideas have to turn into substance.

What is Liberty League?

First off, the idea of Liberty League is to develop a membership and “circle the wagons” by creating a league of members who will support each other and create a personal and economic life outside the confines of the system imposed on us by the government.

The Credo and Mission Statement states, “Liberty League is a private unincorporated fellowship of liberty-loving real Americans who understand the original intent of the Framers of the Constitution; Who pledge to support and defend the Constitution for the united States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic; Who oppose the seditious behavior of those elected and appointed officials who abuse the power of their office and trample our rights; Who do not confuse unalienable rights with statutory privileges; Who strive to conduct themselves in a responsible, moral and self-reliant manner; Who agree to abjure, to the extent practicable, the use of the SSN and the EIN on the principle that a free person is never enumerated; Who understand that attaining real individual Liberty in an increasingly oppressive police state may appear to be an insurmountable task, and; Who, therefore, recognize the need for an association whose members may, under the protections afforded by Article I, Section 10 of the Constitution, contract amongst themselves within their own private membership, thereby enjoying a meaningful degree of personal freedom in an increasingly unfree America.

“Members strive to uphold the principles of free market republicanism as envisioned by Thomas Jefferson by, to the best of their ability, actually living those principles in their daily personal and business lives.”

The Liberty League web site (www.libertyleague.org) has some great writing that clearly and simply lays out our nation's problems and offers a solution -- to circle the wagons. They have an on-line newsletter which provides astute analysis of current events and some extremely well-produced satirical artwork.

The membership of Liberty League is organized by federal congressional districts with a Liberty League District Director to manage the affairs of each district. Members may apply under an alias to protect their privacy.

After reviewing Liberty League's information I decided to pay the 100 “bux” and join. The membership packet included a mini CD ROM packed full of information on the history of liberty and tyranny in the world. The e-book, “Circle the Wagons,” from Liberty League Founder Hank Patrick is also on the mini CD, in a 400-plus-page .pdf file. Hank's “The Most Dangerous Message in America” is a 26-page .pdf file available on the web site, the mini CD, and as a cassette tape that comes in the membership packet. The cassette is a computer-generated text to voice recording.

Another benefit to membership is the ability to participate in the marketing plan. Using the “2-up” marketing system, once you sign up your first two members and pass those two commissions up to your enroller you get to keep the $50 commission from each new member you sign up. And as The Most Dangerous Message in America states on page 22, “...every new Member you recruit will give you their first two commissions.”

It states on the same page that “...a '2-up' program is not 'multilevel.' It is not a pyramid structure, Ponzi scheme or remotely close to any similar sounding marketing plan.”

This sounded like a good way to make up to 150 “bux” by signing up a member who then signed up two more members. And you can sign up with NORFED Liberty Currency.

Unraveling a Scam

After signing up my first new member and sending the $50 “give-up” commission to my enroller, Hank Patrick, I began to wonder about a few details on the membership application. A new version of the application stated in bold type, “IF THIS ENROLLMENT IS A “GIVE UP”-THEN YOU ARE NOT THE ENROLLER; YOUR ENROLLER IS THEN THE ENROLLER.”

That meant the person I signed up would also have Hank as their enroller. And their first two sign ups would also be Hank's enrollments, which could then add four more going to Hank, and then eight...on and on.

It wasn't just the first two $50 commissions that would be passed up but the enrollments as well, potentially doubling on each level of Hank's pyramid of enrollments. And there was no apparent end to the new members that could potentially be “given up” to Hank.

This was a far cry from 150 “bux” maximum potential for signing up a new member if they, in turn, signed up two members. If only the $50 commissions are given up then the “bux” stop flowing to the original enroller once the three commissions are paid. This was the marketing plan I thought Liberty League used when I signed up.

The new version of the membership application also wanted $115 if you sent American Liberty Currency. When I inquired as to why, I was told it was because of the cost to redeem ALC back to FRN's. The purpose of Liberty Currency is to redeem FRNs back into something of real value, not the other way around. This didn't seem like the kind of thinking “liberty-loving real Americans” would have.

I know pyramid marketing structures benefit only the few on the top at the expense of the many below and then collapse, but I wanted to know how it could turn out. I created some hypothetical numerical models which indicated that, in short order, 99.8% of the membership could make 0.2% of the originators of Liberty League very wealthy under their enrollment give up system. This didn't seem to reflect well with the Credo and mission statement which says Liberty League is made of members “Who strive to conduct themselves in a responsible, moral and self-reliant manner.

I looked a little further into The Most Dangerous Message in America and found a pyramid marketing plan on page 24, which describes how 2 enrollments become 4 and then 8, then 16 and then 32 “and so on and so on.” Only two pages earlier they had claimed their “...'2-up' program is not 'multilevel.' It is not a pyramid structure, Ponzi scheme or remotely close to any similar sounding marketing plan.”

Since the principles and expressed purpose of Liberty League seemed to be at odds with its marketing plan, I sent a detailed email to Liberty League to find out what is really going on. The answer I received from National Director Jeff Thomas was not satisfactory.

Their marketing policy hadn't changed, he said. “It is NOT a pyramid, it is NOT multilevel, it IS a spoked wheel.”

Mr. Thomas went on to explain that once I gave up one more enrollment I could start my own “wheel.” He said, “As you draw more people into YOUR organization, your Liberty League business, as it were, they are on your front line, your ONLY line, your WHEEL -- your wheel just keeps getting bigger -- you keep adding spokes...All your giveups' giveups' giveups from here to as far as the eye can see, are forever and always YOURS.”

Doesn't sound like the way to promote liberty and create a lasting association of freedom lovers. Mr. Thomas also couldn't (or wouldn't) see the difference between a commission give up marketing plan which stops at three enrollments or less, and the enrollment give up marketing plan which creates “giveups' giveups' giveups from here to as far as the eye can see.”

He said, “Re-reading your 'Commission Give Up' model below, Adam, you are stating exactly what the Liberty League enrollment model ALREADY IS and exactly the same thing I have written about above.”

I replied to Mr. Thomas, detailing the nature of pyramid schemes and how his “wheels” were destined to become black holes circling the galaxy to absorb more give ups for themselves until they hit the “rim” and collapsed along with Liberty League. So far he hasn't answered back.

Where's the Substance?

The available evidence suggests that the substance of Liberty League is limited to a web site, an on-line news letter, an information-packed mini CD ROM, a computer generated audiotape, a weekly conference call and a membership marketing plan that goes to great lengths to pretend that it is not a pyramid scheme.

Pyramid schemes are a felony in Idaho (Idaho Code 18-3101). The Attorney General's criteria to qualify as a pyramid scheme are:

* Whether goods or service are being offered for sale, and, if so, whether these goods or services are being sold at an inflated price;

* Whether consumers are induced to make purchases primarily because of the income which they are led to believe they can earn by facilitating similar purchases by other consumers;

* Whether a person receives money primarily from the introduction of other people into the scheme rather than from the sale of goods and services; and

* Whether, overall, the program's true emphasis is on making money by expanding the pool of participants, rather than on purchasing the goods and services for their own sake.

Although the mini CD ROM has lots of valuable information on it, it's probably not worth 100 “bux.” So if there is to be additional value, equal to the cost of joining, it has to be the value of Liberty League membership. Without that, “the program's true emphasis is on making money by expanding the pool of participants.”

The membership application lists member benefits as “Members who provide products and services pledge to provide the same to other members at preferred rates or other value added benefits not offered to the regulated general public. Members are afforded the exclusive opportunity to locate other members by contacting the office of the District Director for the district(s) of interest.”

That could be a very valuable benefit, but where are the members offering such goods and services? There are no links on the main web site for “contacting the office of the District Director far the district(s) of interest.” And there are no members offering any goods or services either.

I asked Mr. Thomas to show me an example of anywhere in the country where such membership benefits were offered. I did not receive an answer by e-mail so I called in to the weekly Liberty League conference call. When I asked him to do so, Mr. Thomas said he couldn't lead me to any examples of members offering goods or services, and then he said he wouldn't because Liberty League took my e-mails as a threat.

We discussed the pyramidal nature of Liberty League at length but he still wouldn't come clean on the marketing scam.

Without any evidence anywhere in the nation of any member offering goods or services, what value is there to Liberty League membership? After six months there should be at least one example. Mr. Thomas also held fast to the notion that a commission give up is the same as an enrollment give up.

So what is Liberty League realty about? Liberty? Membership in a functioning league? Is it just a very well-developed “liberty” scam?

Liberty League is a great idea with a fatal streak of greed running through it. Can it be saved from itself? Maybe with some encouragement, maybe not. You can contact them at libertymail@start-it-up.us.

An Idaho Liberty League?

Is there any interest in creating an Idaho Liberty League similar to the principles and purposes of Liberty League only without a pyramid scheme? We could use a “no-up” system. Once you become a member you could then enroll new members directly without any “give ups.” Anyone interested in joining an Idaho Liberty League can contact me at adamsamuelsidahol@yahoo.com.

***

Note: The literature put out by Liberty League is extremely well-researched and accurate to the best of our knowledge. The text is well edited, but not perfect. The patriot community in this country is not very big. Our paths here at The IO would have crossed with whomever is capable of putting this type of material together. So, we either “know” those who serve as Liberty League functionaries, if they would reveal themselves, or they are government plants. At this time, their true identities are a secret. It seems a little difficult to develop a league of like-minded folks based upon mutual trust and respect when the league is led by apparitions sitting at the top of a pyramid. (DWH)

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earncrazymoney
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posted February 02, 2005 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for earncrazymoney   Click Here to Email earncrazymoney     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
This is so funny libertleague.org is not what people are talking about at all. For more information go to http://earncrazymoney.com and find out why liberty league has helped me and my team out.
The earn crazy money team is on its way to succeed in this world are you? I am personally developing an automation system which will get rid of the 800 issues also so anyone who joins under me will get that automation also once i am done building the site. Join today. http://www.earncrazymoney.com
pentagon51@aol.com

Decide your own future. Talk to me about the pros and cons of lli and then decide. Me personally I am shooting for $500,000.00 this year and let's see what happens

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chris17
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posted February 03, 2005 12:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chris17   Click Here to Email chris17     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
What does this have to do with LLI in Arizona, boy oh boy another uninformed idiot. What in life doesnt have a pyramid structure? What in life isnt overpriced? But if you have a system such as LLI has to market its products and get people to replicate it then you will have success. And that is why they are having success. Any questions about how to generate six figures let me know. Life is great!
Chris
312-224-8859

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Ricco
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posted March 15, 2005 08:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ricco   Click Here to Email Ricco     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
People really think they are doing their due dilligence. This is the type of misinformation I am always telling people to look out for. NO MATTER WHAT, there will always be someone out there to bash you when you have success. Especially when there are people who do not have success and then want to blame it on someone else other than themselves. I'm not here to berate people who want to blame the system for thier failure, but I want to make sure that people realize that success starts with the peron in the mirror. If your WHY is big enough you will find your answer.

I am seeing extraordinary changes in my life from the Beyond Freedom product and can attest to the integrity this company has. Not because I am involved, but because it is true.

If you are interested in looking more into Liberty League and would like to postion yourself with a cohesive, unified team who averages an 80% success rate, then I may be the one you need to talk to. We also have a system that will streamline your transition and shorten the learning curve of becoming successful. This is not a sales pitch, this is a fact.

Send me an email:
RGDavisJr@hotmail.com

Ricco www.100Kin6Months.com

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Marketing Genius
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posted April 03, 2005 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marketing Genius     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Here is the absolute truth about LLI or any other business
business opportunity
or anything else involved with making money..


Essentially everything is making sales!

Products or services are exchanged for making money!

So everyone has to learn how to become a great marketer....I went from a terrible MLM'er to a Pretty Good one because I learned how to be a better marketer!!!

Thats it!!

Forget the comp plans and company

its either you can market or you cannot!!!!!

No ifs and or buts...read books about marketing.


and as far as trying to sue LLI... or the guy who ran the ad...google and see how much it will cost to sue someone.

Everyone wants something for nothing...
they want to buy into an opportunity
and not do any ****ing work (excuse my language)

They just want money to plop into their account.

If you dont like the marketing plan you company gives you
shut up and go be creative...
do you know you can run tv commercials for as little as $100 a minute!!!

Why not do that???

Stop buying generic leads because you only make the lead companies richer!!!

If people are evasive or slick or cunning
they dont jack sh*$ for the most part or especially about marketing.

Also stop using the internet and your primary source of marketing.

People always say "I make $40,000"

last month thats great
but if you were true millionaires
you would state what your Net Worth is.

even if you net is only $500,000 thats means
you have no debt....

I know doctors who make $25000 a month and have debt up to their hairlines!

So entrepreneurs or e-preneurs have to become better marketers..

Have any of you ever ran an ad and had 256 people call you back asking for more information....if you did you wouldnt be posted on the board all day.

a $1495 sale isnt that hard.


there are gifting programs where you start off at $36,500......and thats to start

Now thats a hard sale!

You need more than one stream of income and other programs...dont pitch for the highest sale necessarily if you are marketing to people who dont have money!

Do u know it cost $94,000 plus to run an ad in mag's like Baby Talk....Forbes, Millionaire and Billionaire magazine
thats a hard sale but everymonth they meet their quota of full page ads!!!!!

They key is to become better marketers!!!

So what if i takes you three years....
keep going...to many quit as soon as they have their first failure.

Its not the time to do so...
keep going but MAKE A BUDGET for marketing expenses.

a word of advice...advertise where others dont advertise!!!!

If there are 25 people selling oranges on 5th ave
go to 8th where there will be less ppl selling..

prime example dont sell as much online.

anyhow....I dont know anything..
I just own a Advertising agency!

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ohein
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posted April 24, 2005 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ohein   Click Here to Email ohein     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Re:Liberty League Intl.-
IMHO these "opportunities" the Aussie 1-ups and 2-ups are best suited for a certain kind of marketer. NOT MLMrs.

These are built the good old fashioned "dinasaur" style of building popularized in the 80's & 90's by "heavy hitters", where you "recruit, recruit , recruit", and throw enough mud against the wall to see exactly how much will stick!"

I even ran into someone last week that was possibly being "recruited" into LLI by one of the most visable and prominant forum posters around! I spoke to her for an hour or more tring to get an accurate picture of this persons "recruiting style". He was so "secretive" about what he would or wouldn't share with her before she could take the "next step" he offended her intelligence and actually DROVE her AWAY!

I'm sure he grinned to himself as he said "NEXT, dumb rookies!" as he moved on to the next "sucker"/ "amateur".

This guy is pretty proud of himself, he apparently does very well for himself and essentially sees himself as a "heavy hitter" and anyone who isn't sponsoring 20 people a month is a "rank amateur".

I'm curious to see what his next big "opportunity" is next year after this one peters out!

These people that promote these "opportunities" are "recruiting machines" that are tired of the piddly *** tiny commissions they get from their "MLM" companies, my impression is they don't have the patience or team building skills to build a lasting duplicating organization so they align themselves with a comp plan that cracks a HUGE commission 2-5 times a week as they know how to scour through the numbers looking for frustrated MLMrs that see the appeal of a BIG commission once in a while.(They ALL brag too that their opportunity isn't MLM, yet they promote their business and recruit openly on MLM forums vigorously, circling/stalking like lions, looking to crack that 1+k commission! You MLMr's earn peanuts, they chant!!, "Step up to the BIG "player" commissions. RANK AMATEURS ALL OF YOU!"

AGAIN, ask yourself these two CRITICAL questions if your considering these "opportunities", as a "real" business";

1)- Would anyone REALISTICALLY ever purchase this product or service without participating in the income opportunity?
(is there a LEGITIMATE product? (NOT just grossly overpriced products that are used as an excuse for paying large commissions out!?) LOOK CLOSELY at the value of the "product" HERE folks!! What is it!?

2)- If ALL the recruiting stopped TODAY, would this company still be able to pay monthly commissions in the months ahead?

Will people continue to purchase the product AFTER the distributor/customer relationship is over and the transaction is complete? Will the customer still buy the product for just the value of the PRODUCT alone? I seriously doubt it.

MLM/Network marketing is a teaching/mentoring business that is based on relationships, teambuilding. Not how big a commission you earn when you enroll someone new! THINK before you ACT.

Get your heads out of the ether.

IMHO, LLI, Coastal, MIM, Emerald etc...
All the aussie-up plans are smoke and mirrors! IMHO.

They are for pro "recruiters".

Pass on em. Find a "real" business, with a product you LOVE, that will stand the test of time. Then get to work!

KLH

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pssportofwealth
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posted February 19, 2006 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pssportofwealth   Click Here to Email pssportofwealth     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I have been with many of the top DIRECT SALES business opportunities out there (I learned my lessons with MLM's= MAJOR WASTE OF TIME). There are a couple of very good companies out there but the one I have had the most success with is Emerald Passport.
The bottom line why is the product. The product is actually something most of us are proud to stand behind. It is a product that the company continues to reinvest its profits into. They keep adding informative practical courses to the Phase 1 product and the price never goes up. People here actually sell the product and not the opportunity. That is something that you will never see with any other opportunity I have seen. We also are able to give people a TEST DRIVE of the product so they know what they are going to get before receiving it. Try asking the last opportunity person you spoke to if you can do that. Fat chance! The bottom line is with EPI it starts and stops with the product. And that is the key.
Secondly duplication is actually somewhat prevalent here. As you should know duplication and leverage are the key to making a serious income. The system is so refined to 3 steps. Marketing the product and opportunity, getting people the information, and then answering their questions. There is no hard sell here with EPI. We don't teach that unlike other companies who go for the jugular with the "are you in our out" routine. Here we want people to make an informed business decision. This is hard work, and takes commitment and consistency but it is well worth it if you stick with it. EPI has come a long way with its training calls and support it offers its directors. It is also a huge factor that not a lot of top producers have migrated to other companies. That sort of jumping from oppty to oppty syndrome is not happening here.
The compensation plan here is also pretty awesome. The reverse margin compensation plan that allows us to keep 75% of the gross revenue is very lucrative. The reason why is our product is web-education and delivered online. There is little overhead, no shipping or any of those other costs that will suck away profits. With other companies the costs of entry are higher at the other levels PLUS the percentage of profits are lower. So there fore with a better product and with a higher percentage of profits why would you look anywhere else?
I am a Phase 2 Director here and a founding member. If you have any questions regarding EPI or are looking for amazing support from a dedicated leader then feel free to contact me. I wish everyone the best but thank God for home based business as the travel and freedom I enjoy are amazing. All the best.
Chris
877-776-7503
passportofwealth@aol.com

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