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  "The Pitbull Problem"

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Author Topic:   "The Pitbull Problem"
wahooratt
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posted February 11, 2005 11:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I found this video online and it was so moving, it really puts into perspective the real issue with pitbulls.....

Here is the link to the video (it is about 5 minutes)
http://www.deviantart.com/view/11454716/

I also read an article where the news had highlighted the fact that a "pitbull" had attacked a cat, but in the same broadcast had not highlighted the fact that a dog (they didnt mention that it was a poodle) had attacked a little boy......

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AtlantaGAMom
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posted February 11, 2005 11:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AtlantaGAMom   Click Here to Email AtlantaGAMom     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I own two dogs... a German Shepherd and a lab/pit mix. When I rescued my pit he had sores on his legs and was so timid he wouldn't let me put him down. Now he follows me around everywhere, sleeps on my feet and is absolutely wonderful. One thing that gets me though is when I walk them people look straight at my dogs and cross the street. Or tell me I don't need to let them be around my unborn child.

You know my dog still pees when a man comes in the house with sunglasses on. He is absolutely terrified of men in sunglasses. Explain that. I can someone that fits that description hurt my baby. It takes a real man to abuse a 4 month old puppy. NOT

Take care and thanks for sharing
Stephanie

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wahooratt
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posted February 11, 2005 11:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
That is horrible....I wish people werent so ingnorent....
The other day my boyfriend was picking my daughter up from school and saw a lady walking a puppy that was about 3 months old, and he said "thats a cute pitbull puppy"
And she said she didnt know it was a pitbull, and that she didnt even like pitbulls...lol....she doesnt like them but she likes this cute little puppy (that was definatly a pitbull) And at the same time, those are also the people that can give pitbulls a bad name...by not knowing the breed of dog you own, because some pitbulls do need extra attention and training to keep them from becoming another statistic....I know that from my experiance you have to raise them around cats or they just dont like them....

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AtlantaGAMom
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posted February 11, 2005 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AtlantaGAMom   Click Here to Email AtlantaGAMom     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Sorry no cats in our house. My old Angel Baby Girl (GSD) was been set in her ways a long time and she hates cats. She is one of the most beautiful dogs you have ever seen, but to be honest with you I would never want to see her have to defend one of us. She absolutely adores my son (8 years old) and goes outside with him. I tell her stay with your brother. She doesn't leave him. in today's world it is wonderful.

As for my little Apollo he actually is pretty territorial, but that is actually more of a lab trait then a pit. I just hate when they lump sum all of one breed in one category.

What also gets me is my neighbor lets her yorkshire terrior run all the time, well I was hooking my dogs out front and didn't know it was out there. Apollo went past me and chased the dog home. She's lucky Angel didn't get past me because the both of them would have caught him and it probably wouldn't have been pretty. Then again it would have ended up on the news about how these to vicious dogs attack a poor innocent Yorkshire Terrior. No one would have mention the biotch let's the dog out in 20 degree weather at 5 AM for it to come stand in front of my house. Worst of all can you believe she told me I was irresponsible? Like you said IGNORANCE.

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DL
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posted February 11, 2005 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DL     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Breed bashing is one of those things that really ticks me off. It's one thing to be afraid - I fault nobody for their fear nor do I ever try and talk them out of it, but people would be surprised to discover that most attacks come from very shy, dependent (sharp) dogs that just turn to jell-o and find the slightest thing threatening - you know the ones - they tremble, tuck their tails, roll over on their backs or pee when a stranger comes near and are often owned by people who "baby them to ridiculous levels" and then blame the bitten kids for "provoking" the dog that goes into a fit of lunacy over the most minute action.

Anyway - thanks for sharing the video.

[This message has been edited by DL (edited February 11, 2005).]

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dazzzlingdani
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posted February 12, 2005 06:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dazzzlingdani     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I have 2 pitbulls and 2 cats and 2 young boys and we all get along quite fine. if someone were to try to hurt one of us tho, they would prob lose a limb, but i think that comes natural with most breeds.

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lexibethr
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posted February 12, 2005 07:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lexibethr   Click Here to Email lexibethr     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
My mother had always had me afraid of dogs when I was little, I dont think she meant to do it just that she was over cautious, her biggest ones were Rotweilers, Dobermians, and pitbulls.
As an adult most of my friends own Rotts and I have never seen one that wast the most lovable loyal teddybear of a dog. I still have the fear of pitbulls though its not that I dont like them or would tell somebody they shouldnt ownd one but everytime I see someone walking them I freeze and start to shake and I do cross the street if I see one comming. I cant rationalize this fear but I cant get over it either. My bestfriend owns one and she a 4 yr old and a baby on the way and is always trying to tell me it is the same as the other two (great dane and dobermian) but I still make her put that dog out before I come in.

Sorry I dont mean to step on toes but it is the truth, I dont think people try to be rude or ignorant when they panic around these dogs its something they cant help. Like I am afraid of rats but not squirrels or rabbits.

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wahooratt
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posted February 12, 2005 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
You know what is the funniest thing of all.....An "American Pitbull Terrier" can be registered w/ the "UKC" but what most people dont even know is that in the "AKC" the "American Staffordshire Terrier" is a Pitbull!!! They just changed the name back in the 40's or 50's..... Now you never hear of people saying "THERE WAS ANOTHER AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER ATTACK" LOL.... And if you talk to people that own one they completely refuse to admit that it is the same breed!!! but I have read the history, and they are the same breed......

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DL
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posted February 12, 2005 09:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DL     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
lexi, There is no need to ever apologize for your fears. I would much rather crate a dog or cross the street than have my guests or oncomers on the sidewalk feel uncomfortable.

Media plays a big part in fear. People never hear about the thousands of bites from non-working dogs - usually the smaller breeds that can't do quite as much "damage" due to their lack of strength and size. It's thought of as cute when the Schnauzer growls in protest when antagonized or the Lhasa Apso nips incessantly when someone touches his ears.

I've worn the bite sleeves to train police dogs for protection work and taken sleeve bites from Pits, Shepherds, etc in my dog-training career. The only dog that ever "bit" me of his own accord - not in training - was a Miniature Schnauzer. When people work with many dogs they begin to discover that the breeds such as Shepherds, Rotts, Pits, etc, are much more "steady" with higher threshholds of tolerance and the ability to "think for themselves", though they are quicker to form pack mentalities when living near others of similar background. In comparison, all canines possess the same basic genetics but smaller breeds need to be treated as dogs rather than "mini-humans" and taken just as seriously as heavier breeds.

Many factors can place certain breeds in the top ten for "most dangerous". For example, when Dalmations were the fad (101 Dalmations movie), there were more bred and owned, therefore a greater instance for the potential of reported biting. Dalmations made the top ten list of dangerous dogs a few years back along with Saint Bernard's around the time of "Beethoven" hitting the video stores.

It doesn't matter what breed bites. As long as there is ONE bite from ONE dog then we have a problem of undereducation among the human population. It could stem from any number of factors or combinations including haphazard breeding of genetically unsound specimens, misinformation, maltreatment, lack of training or proper care, allowing kids to taunt animals, allowing animals to rule the roost, not understanding canine drive or proper communication, etc.

When breed bashing occurs, it will get us nowhere in helping to end unnecessary attacks.

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DL
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posted February 12, 2005 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DL     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
wahooratt, you're right regarding the Pitbull being a Terrier, etc. Neither is very far off from "Wishbone" (remember that show?).

[This message has been edited by DL (edited February 12, 2005).]

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wahooratt
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posted February 12, 2005 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
The Staffordshire is a Pitbull....Here is the History as accounted for on the "AKC" site...On other sites they refer to it as a pitbull more, but I did put stars by the paragraph where they actually refer to it as a pitbull (Pit Dog or Pit Builterrier) they try to spell it different.....And it doesnt state it here, but it is actually called the "Pit Bull Terrier" because after bull baiting was banned they became known for killing rats in there owners homes, then they would put rats in a pit for the dogs to attack....and the terrier part came from the ability to hunt small prey...(RATS)


American Staffordshire Terrier History

To correctly give the origin and history of the American Staffordshire Terrier, it is necessary to comment briefly on two other dogs, namely the Bulldog and the terrier.

Until the early part of the 19th century; the Bulldog was bred with great care in England for the purpose of baiting bulls. The Bulldog of that day was vastly different from our present-day "sourmug." Pictures from as late as 1870 represent the Bulldog as agile and as standing straight on his legs-his front legs in particular. In some cases he was even possessed of a muzzle, and long rat tails were not uncommon. The Bulldog of that day, with the exception of the head, looked more like the present-day American Staffordshire Terrier than like the present-day Bulldog.

Some writers contend it was the white English Terrier, or the Black-and-Tan Terrier, that was used as a cross with the Bulldog to perfect the Staffordshire Terrier. It seems easier to believe that any game terrier, such as the Fox Terrier of the early 1800s, was used in this cross, since some of the foremost authorities on dogs of that time state that the Black-and-Tan and the white English Terrier were none too game, but these same authorities go on to stress the gameness of the Fox Terrier. It is reasonable to believe that breeders who were attempting to perfect a dog that would combine the spirit and agility of the terrier with the courage and tenacity of the Bulldog, would not use a terrier that was not game. In analyzing the three above-mentioned terriers at that time, we find that there was not a great deal of difference in body conformation, the greatest differences being in color, aggressiveness, and spirit.

*****In any event, it was the cross between the Bulldog and the terrier that resulted in the Staffordshire Terrier, which was originally called the Bull-and-Terrier Dog, Half and Half, and at times Pit Dog or Pit Builterrier. Later, it assumed the name in England of Staffordshire Bull Terrier.*****

These dogs began to find their way into America as early as 1870, where they became known as Pit Dog, Pit Bull Terrier, later American Bull Terrier, and still later as Yankee Terrier.

In 1936, they were accepted for registration in the AKC Stud Book as Staffordshire Terriers. The name of the breed was revised effective January 1, 1972 to American Staffordshire Terrier. Breeders in this country had developed a type which is heavier in weight than the Staffordshire Bull Terrier of England and the name change was to distinguish them as separate breeds.

The American Staffordshire Terrier's standard allows a variance in weight, but it should be in proportion to size. The dog's chief requisites should be strength unusual for his size, soundness, balance, a strong powerful head, a well-muscled body, and courage that is proverbial.

To clarify the confusion that may exist, even in the minds of dog fanciers, as to the difference between the American Staffordshire Terrier and the Bull Terrier, a comment on the latter may be helpful. The Bull Terrier was introduced by James Hinks of Birmingham, who had been experimenting for several years with the old bull-and-terrier dog, now known as Staffordshire. It is generally conceded that he used the Staffordshire, crossed with the white English Terrier, and some writers contend that a dash of Pointer and Dalmatian blood was also used to help perfect the all-white Bull Terrier.

In mentioning the gameness of the Staffordshire, it is not the intention to tag him as a fighting machine, or to praise this characteristic. These points are discussed because they are necessary in giving the correct origin and history of the breed. The good qualities of the dogs are many, and it would be difficult for anyone to overstress them.

And you are right about the small dogs biting more...or the dogs people think are more family dogs....
I dont know if you watched the video or not but it states on it that in a 7 yr study pitbulls only accounted for about 1.89% of bites....listing #96 out of 100 breeds, and that Labs and Cocker Spaniels should be considered more dangerous....lol....I can just see the news now...."Another Lab Attack" or "Labs being banned for Aggression" lol....like that would happen...lol

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potter
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posted February 12, 2005 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for potter   Click Here to Email potter     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Hi guys, I am still working through some trauma, that my dogs and I experienced over the summer. I thought maybe someone could shed some light on the whys.

I have lab/rot mix. 88lbs of pure baby who likes nothing more then grab you by the shoulder and take you down. He does not do this out of meaness, hes playing. My other is is an 8lb min/pin who was abused. Hes come along way but will turn on me in a minute and then need a hug the next. Because of this, the min is never unsupervised around others and I no
longer allow anyone to approach either. They do not run free. Never been out of the yard, unless with me on a leash. They have a pen that affords enough room to run and play but the lab, mopes. The little one digs out.

Last summer the neighbor aquired a pit bull. The then got a shepard/mix and these dogs packed and begin to terrorize the neighborhood.

Our first incident happened when I put the pin outside on his cable to use the b/r. My dd happened to look out the window and saw that each dog had the pin and was stretching him. She jumped in the middle and we got him off the leash and I caught him as she came up with him. Now, if this was not fun enough. I backed my way into the house, with the pit following. Never took his eye off my pin. My daughter is beating the crap out of this pit he never flinched. His goal never changed that was to get the pin. I finally got across a baby gate and got the pin into the b/r. I then had to go bk and drag my lab who was on the other chain. Into the house. He thought the shepard was playing with him. I drugged him in the house with the shepard firmly attached to his bk leg. When he realized something was wrong he turned and let out one growl, the sherpard let go and ran.

That attack could not have been over three minutes, enough time to puncture the pins trachea, numerous punctures, on the hind legs and stomache. To the vet who did'nt give him much chance with the trachea wounds. I did'nt eat or sleep for three days. I held him and promised if he would live I would not let it happen again. He lived I spent close to a thousand on pen they don't like.

The neighbors were jerks promised to pay the bills ect. Did'nt do a d#$% thing but worry what effect getting rid of the pit would have on their grandson, who is already showing signs of delinquincy though he is 8 years old.

Two months later, I put the pin out by my window I was assured that these dogs were put up. I no more set down, when I heard the pin and I knew. I won't go through all the details, we are both still alive. His wounds were worse and I took an ambulance ride. I'll tell what though I don't remember when the pit grabbed me by the neck. I do remember when he managed to break my arm. I remember when I made the decision to stick both hands in his mouth and free my dog from his grip. I remember my dogs eyes rolling up in his head....The worst though is this, the pit only let go of me because he was still intent on killing my dog after playing with him like a rag doll. I know he got me by the neck as I got the leash unhooked from my dog. I can remember screaming run and the pin did he was a couple feet away from me as I was being rolled and I saw him, the look on his face-8lbs and standing there not breathing very well trying to make a decision. Was he gonna keep running or was he gonna come bk and get moms bk? Before he had a chance to decide the shepard came out of no where and grabbed him. I guess its a good thing because with what I had left I got free of the pit and probably broke a record for the standing long jump, I landed on top of that shepard. My dd who had been asleep finally heard and came running. The pin made it to the open door, the poor lab was trying to break out of the pen and I was trying to choke the shepard but the arm was'nt working.

I believe those dogs should have been destroyed. This particular pit was doing nothing but having fun. I have never recieved an apology, though they did send a christmas card. Its a small town, was'nt hard to find out who had their homeowners. I called the insurance co. myself. It was settled but is it over? I don't know.

Everyone has the right to their choice of dogs. I went above and beyond to protect others from my dogs and then to protect my dogs from theirs in my own front yard! I don't understand who thinks they have the right to allow their dogs to run free. We have a cat, if they had gotten her I would have reacted the same. I am sorry to ramble but I had at least three criminal charges I could have pressed. Their homeowners is at risk now. If I see the dogs all I have to do is call and it will be cancelled. You stick up a sign saying beware of dog, its not covering your butt. In a court of law its an admission that you knew the dog was dangerous. I've learned alot folks.


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wahooratt
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posted February 12, 2005 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
You are exactly right....The owners are completly irresponsible...They have no right to own any animal from what you have said....
They dont know how to control anything (they probably coudnt control a 2lb dog)
I am sorry this happened to you, but at the same time you said there was a Shepard mix too....It is not the fact that the dog is a pitbull that makes it uncontrolable...it is people that dont care to control an animal...

What is so bad though is that people make a big deal about pitbulls and not other dog breeds that attack....It is so bad that in some areas they are being banned...what happens when they are all banned??
What breed comes next???
Labs??
Rotts??
Poodles???
I think all owners should have to put there dogs through some sort of training!! So ensure that they are able to control the dog that they own...

Like that story a few years back, about the lady that had two Italian Mastifs in an Apartment that attacked the neighbor, She had no right to own such a powerfull dog (let alone 2) without being able to control them....
I actually own a Italian Mastif/Rott and she is the most submissive dog you could imagine.....I spent alot of time training her though.....My 10 month old son crawls all over her and I dont worry at all, He even sits on her head and bounces like he is riding her and she doent even care....

I also own two UKC registered pitbulls, And one wasnt raised w/ cats so she hates them...and I know this about her so to ensure that my dogs dont get out (even though I live on 5 acres in the middle of know-where...lol) I have fenced an area for them to run, and also put electric fence along the bottom so they are unable to dig out of it...I feel it is my resposiblity as a Pitbull (Dog) owner to keep my dog from harming anyone elses animals, whether it be a cat, dog, goat, or horse....If I allowed her to get out I would be just as bad as every other Dog owner that let a dog attack.....
And at the same time I dont believe that because she is a pitbull that I should have to get rid of her or put her to sleep, because of her breed, or because she doent like cats....(I have seen a 5lb dog almost kill a cat) But that is what sociaty is trying to do to them....

In some states the Humane Sociaty kills any dog that resembles a pitbull, no matter what the temperment...the just dont adopt them out....
I got my sister a puppy from the pound that ended up to be a pit mix and she is the best dog ever, I would hate to think that she could have been killed just because she looks like a pit...

I am sorry for what happened to you, and I think mabye you should have made reports about the owners....but it is just so horrible that they are singling out one breed out of how many?? When I was little I remember people being against the Doberman, two of them jumped a 6ft fence and attacked a little girl walking down the street, but they never got banned.....
That is why I fight for the Pitbull....

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potter
WAHM.com regular
posted February 12, 2005 12:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for potter   Click Here to Email potter     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I don't blame ya, I'd fight too. I am not after the dogs I am after the owners. I do think though that once a dog gets a taste for the game, he will continue to play. I don't know if they understand they are inflicting pain and death but I do know that when my pin or lab gets a hollar out of me they stop in the their tracks.

These dogs had been packed for quite some time and I do think that there was another dog on their property that was in heat. My lab is fixed. The pin is not. I think thats one of the reasons he was singled out.

Like you I feel all we can do is take measures to insure our dogs safety. I live in the middle of no-where 40 acres.

The pin is beyond socialization, I can't risk being sued because he bit someone. The lab I feel would be easily trained but the nearest trainer is 40 mi away. I bought one of those harnesses that would work with a seatbelt, so far no luck getting it on him.

Another thing, those dogs had no records of rabies shots. Mine of course did. But...the last trip to the vet for the pin was so traumatic, I doubt that we will be going bk. I have one vet that has agreed to let me bring him just to familiarize himself with the office. As many times as it would take but I still feel that he needs something to just about knock him out before we get there. After the 2nd attack. he fought them, he fought what was left of me. Took them 20 min to muzzle a dog that was basically suffocating to death because of his wounds. I can't put him through it again. Iam tearing up now, just because we did nothing to deserve this. Yet my dog is viewed as the one that should be put to sleep because of his attitude. Thats what they told me. No, we won't go bk there.

Another thing the law does not care how bad your dog is hurt, the insurance does not care either. They will pay the bills but as far as what your dog went through its not considered. They did'nt want to discuss his injuries and I would not discuss mine until they at least acknowledged his. Went around and around on that. lolol...

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wahooratt
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posted February 12, 2005 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
And luckily they had insurance to cover you....alot of companies dont even cover pitbulls, they will cancel the owners policy if they know they have them, or make them pay extra for "danerous dog" insurance...

WoW...You live on 40 acres and the neighbors dog came to you house??

Now that is really irresposible of them.....

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wahooratt
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posted February 12, 2005 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
That is also the reason why I have fenced w/ electric fence around the bottom of mine....My girl pit was not socialized w/ cats or other animals before I got her, and there is no way she is changing her mind....
I have tried.....

She is great w/ people but not cats....
my boy is the most playful guy around though....he likes to chase the cats, but just to play....I like to avoid it though...I dont want it to turn into aggression....

[This message has been edited by wahooratt (edited February 12, 2005).]

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DL
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posted February 12, 2005 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DL     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Potter, I haven't seen you around in so long. It's great to hear from you but I am SO sorry to hear what you've been going through!

I know you well enough to know that you understand dogs better than many people I've met, but trying to determine causes for outlandish canine behavior can be a real chore for anyone - especially if they do not have access to the dog for evaluation.

I agree with wahooratt though - I would guess these Pit owners have used the dog in fighting or it used to be a fighting dog before they had it. If they cannot control their 8 yr old they have NO business owning a powerful, potentially dangerous dog. They sound like real "winners" (NOT!)

So many people just don't "get it" - they can't or won't read signals and body language of canines or take the time to figure out how they are "communicating" negatives to the dogs through their own actions and inadvertantly (or sometimes on purpose) "train" them to be nasty or scary. Dogs "learn" whether we control the input and experiences they are receiving or not.

I'm surprised the dog wasn't put down after the first attack, or the owner's ticketed/fined. Wow.

It is people like your neighbors that ruin things for responsible owners/breeders and the dogs themselves.

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wahooratt
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posted February 12, 2005 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Well, I never said I think they used the dog for fighting or that it was used before....The thing w/ "Aggressive Dogs" or should I say "Working Dogs" (including Rotts, Dobies, Shepards, and Pitbulls) is that they dont have to be trained to be mean!!! But they do have to be disiplined as not to bring out the aggression, and they need exercise and training to keep them from being bored and finding things (like cats & small dogs) to "entertain" them.....
My girl pit I have, has never been fought by me or the original owner, but she still has an aggression towards cats and some female dogs (it is a domination trait) she wants to dominate most everything but I dont let her, most people dont disipline this causing the dog to get more dominate....

Even little dogs dominate over the people that own them....It is a "pack" trait...Just like the Wolf Packs....they fight to be the dominate leader....
Some dogs have a natural dominate role, and the owner needs to make sure that He or She is the Pack Leader and not the dog....

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wahooratt
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posted February 12, 2005 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
This may sound funny, but there is a thing called loving a dog too much....I recently have seen a show called "The Dog Whisperer" and it is great....He tells people that first you exercise, disipline, then love your dog.....This way the dog knows it is a dog and it knows its role in your life....If the dog thinks it is a Equal to the Human, it then in turn thinks it is the leader of the Human, and becomes the Leader and thinks it can do what it wants when it wants....
That is why we hear stories of the "Perfect Family Dog" (Any Breed) turning on the Family....Because the dog Thought it was the Leader, and was putting a lower being in its place....
And the fact is the dog should not have been made to think it was in control in the first place...

I hope everyone understood that...lol...I am not always the best w/ words...lol

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DL
WAHM.com regular
posted February 12, 2005 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DL     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wahooratt:
Well, I never said I think they used the dog for fighting or that it was used before....The thing w/ "Aggressive Dogs" or should I say "Working Dogs" (including Rotts, Dobies, Shepards, and Pitbulls) is that they dont have to be trained to be mean!!! But they do have to be disiplined as not to bring out the aggression, and they need exercise and training to keep them from being bored and finding things (like cats & small dogs) to "entertain" them.....
My girl pit I have, has never been fought by me or the original owner, but she still has an aggression towards cats and some female dogs (it is a domination trait) she wants to dominate most everything but I dont let her, most people dont disipline this causing the dog to get more dominate....

Even little dogs dominate over the people that own them....It is a "pack" trait...Just like the Wolf Packs....they fight to be the dominate leader....
Some dogs have a natural dominate role, and the owner needs to make sure that He or She is the Pack Leader and not the dog....


I'm sorry wahoo, I was thinking faster than I was typing. I didn't mean to imply that you thought the dog had been "fought" at some point - just meant to agree that the owners needed a huge reality check and probably shouldn't own dogs.

Anyway, tons of stuff to do here so I better get off this darn addictive mb (LOL) - just wanted to apologize real quick and say that "aggression" is NOT a bad thing in canines, but when owners (like the Pit owners above) do not learn to read it/work with it or "control" it and work with/understand a dog's natural drives then many problems can arise. Obviously you are able to "read your dog" and take the necessary steps to curtail him from eating "Meow Mix", lol I had a Rottie like that too - he'd try to go to great lengths in search of the elusive and delicious (?) kitty treat.

K, I'm off for a while - sorry about the confusion earlier!

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potter
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posted February 12, 2005 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for potter   Click Here to Email potter     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Hi DL! Yep I am still around but can be found mostly on the psychic board as that is where I feel is most appropiate for me and my ramblings.

You know, getting up close and personal with this particular pit, is what I am still struggeling with. As you know most people would have been judging the size and strength of the dog, me I went right for the mentality. What is normally my strong suit has become my biggest challenge.

In both attacks, I sensed his "playfullness" his laid bk attitude. The only time he percieved me as a threat was in taking the pin out of the equasion. He did'nt mind that I was intent on wrapping a garden hose around his neck and choking him.(anything is a weapon but I don't recommend garden hoses.) He could have care less that I was on his back cramming my fingers down his throat. I did okay with my left hand got it between his jowel and gums. The right hand though was not so lucky, 3 months later the thumb is still sore but the blood blisters under the nail have grown out.

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wahooratt
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posted February 12, 2005 04:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I think that is it...you hit it head on the nail...lol....They are so much more Head Strong or Stubborn....Which makes them a harder dog to own....Once they make up their mind it is hard to stop them...That is also why People fight them....They know that that dog is so Stubborn that it will fight to the death....which is not true for most other breeds, alot would just give up when things got "ruff" but they are so stubborn that they will die just to make the person happy.....

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potter
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posted February 12, 2005 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for potter   Click Here to Email potter     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Tell me more about your eletric fence. It keeps your pets in but does it keep other things out?

The lab for instance, I have had every silent whistle made. My bro retired from the post office and wanted me to borrow their offical dog defense. Potter(thats the labs name) responded to it and settled right down for almost 2 days. Then he started cocking his head, wagging his tail and dragging me around the house, I almost swallowed that thing, lolo. We believe in having fun around here.

I don't think this pit was fought. I think he was introduced into a family that had no time, no care, no love, no regard for the dog. He left and created his own fun. I continue to think that the other dog went into heat and he was out to get the competition after he had alittle fun.

I want to thank you all for letting me talk about this in a way that has been very helpful. Its been 6 months, I've just now quit having nightmares and can handle the mental images, they still hurt but I continue to examine them in order to understand.

Yes, I had a gun handy that day, a ball bat to boot but deep down I did'nt want to kill anything. I believe if the shepard had attacked me or if the pit had been focus on me, I would have been in more trouble. I do know though that if he had had a child by the neck it would have been a very different scenerio. Even though I've downplayed this, I had to fight and fought hard. A child would not have gotten free.

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wahooratt
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posted February 12, 2005 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Well if something did get in it would have a tough time...lol....what I did was, first I fenced w/ 5 ft high "dog wire" (the one w/ 2x4 inch squares) then i took 6 inch long electric fence insulators (instead of the short ones) and ran two rows, one close to the ground about 4 inches high and the other about 6 inches above that....that way they dont like to even get close to the fence (pitbulls are one of the only dogs that are known to chew through chain link) but the electric fence worked great.....they dont even go near it....I havent had any problems w/ them trying to get out though, so if they really wanted to I dont know if the could....I just wanted to make sure that MY Dogs didnt have the chance to become a statistic....

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Sfabeck
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posted February 12, 2005 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sfabeck     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wahooratt:
I think that is it...you hit it head on the nail...lol....They are so much more Head Strong or Stubborn....Which makes them a harder dog to own....Once they make up their mind it is hard to stop them...That is also why People fight them....They know that that dog is so Stubborn that it will fight to the death....which is not true for most other breeds, alot would just give up when things got "ruff" but they are so stubborn that they will die just to make the person happy.....

This is exactly my problem with this breed!
ANY DOG CAN BITE AT ANY TIME, but I pity the person/animal who happens to have the encounter be with a "pit-bull"......

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Sfabeck
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posted February 12, 2005 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sfabeck     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by potter:
Tell me more about your eletric fence. It keeps your pets in but does it keep other things out?

The lab for instance, I have had every silent whistle made. My bro retired from the post office and wanted me to borrow their offical dog defense. Potter(thats the labs name) responded to it and settled right down for almost 2 days. Then he started cocking his head, wagging his tail and dragging me around the house, I almost swallowed that thing, lolo. We believe in having fun around here.

I don't think this pit was fought. I think he was introduced into a family that had no time, no care, no love, no regard for the dog. He left and created his own fun. I continue to think that the other dog went into heat and he was out to get the competition after he had alittle fun.

I want to thank you all for letting me talk about this in a way that has been very helpful. Its been 6 months, I've just now quit having nightmares and can handle the mental images, they still hurt but I continue to examine them in order to understand.

Yes, I had a gun handy that day, a ball bat to boot but deep down I did'nt want to kill anything. I believe if the shepard had attacked me or if the pit had been focus on me, I would have been in more trouble. I do know though that if he had had a child by the neck it would have been a very different scenerio. Even though I've downplayed this, I had to fight and fought hard. A child would not have gotten free.


I would just like to tell you how sorry I am to know you had to go through such a traumatic event..... It is nice to see that you haven't stereotyped either breed completely because of it, and hopefully the mental aspect will get easier in time.

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potter
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posted February 13, 2005 06:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for potter   Click Here to Email potter     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Yep I agree any dog can bite. Thing about a pit though, once he locks his jaws your not going anywhere. My arm snapped just like that. I was'nt totally aware of it not till a bit later when I really needed that arm.

They can chomp their way through a chain link fence.

On the other hand, consider this. That morning before the second attack. The pit was circling the house, 4:30am I had just begun my work day. He circled entirely twice while I was considering getting the gun because I could hear "someone" outside.

The lab and I realized about the same time who and what it was, I went to the door to shoosh him away but I made the mistake of lowering my voice alittle to much and the lab took a running leap through the front double paned window, he did'nt get completely through because of the frame in the middle but he busted the glass. These are alumin windows, shatter proof my A$$.

I know what both of my dogs are capable of. Because of it, they are never unsupervised. Its not easy. My dogs live inside the house. The security they provide is priceless.

The lab was'nt injured alittle shocked but okay. Why though was the pit circling the house at 4:30am in the morning? He was hunting the little one.

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wahooratt
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posted February 13, 2005 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
See, this is my point exactily....People all believe the myths of pitbulls....The are just like any other dog.....Here is a Question & Answer (Answered by a Vet)

Q: A friend of mine told me that Pit Bulls have a special enzyme that allow them to lock their jaws. It is true?

A: This is a very common myth. Pit Bulls are just another member of the canine species and have the same jaw structure as any other dog. If they had a special enzyme or other physical mechanism that allowed them to lock their jaws, we would have to reclassify them as a different species. However, Pit Bulls do seem to have an above average amount of determination for things they are interested in. In fact, they were selectively bred to never give up. Their focus may be barking at squirrels, fetching rocks or sticks, but whatever they do, it's done with a great deal of enthusiasm. If they happen to grab onto something they don't want to release, it can be quite difficult to extract it from them.

Listen to this....And this was a Pomeranian!!

Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog
Monday, October 9, 2000

A 6-week-old girl died Saturday night after she was mauled by the family's dog, according to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

The attack occurred in the girl's home in the 15500 block of Fellowship Street in Valinda, an unincorporated area between La Puente and West Covina, Deputy Cruz Solis said.

An uncle baby-sitting the newborn left the child on a bed unattended while he went to the kitchen to prepare a bottle for her, Solis said. When he returned, he found the family's Pomeranian dog on the bed attacking the baby, Solis said.

The man freed the child from the dog and called for help. The baby died shortly after at Queen of the Valley Hospital in West Covina, according to Solis.

The parents of the child, whose name has been withheld by officials, were in the Philippines, Solis said.


Toddler Mauled To Death By Dogs in Tennessee

March 31, 2004

Munford, TN - A toddler is mauled to death by two dogs... dogs that were considered family pets. Tipton County officials say two-year-old Samuel James Truck was pronounced dead at the the families home at 215 Kate McClanahan in Munford yesterday.

Authorities say the two dogs were being kept in the garage and the door had a child proof lock. Sometime yesterday while the mother was on the phone, the two year boy wandered into the garage. The mother found him later and called authorities but the child was pronounced dead at the scene.

The family has three other dogs - all are believed to be rottweilers or rottweiler mixed. The other three dogs were being kept in cages in the back yard. The Tipton County Animal Shelter has the two dogs that were part of the attack in custody now and police have petitioned to put the animals to sleep, but the family has refused to sign the petition. The Animal shelter says they will not release the dogs or allow them to be adopted by anyone else.

The family also has an infant. Authorities say they have had no previous complaints about the dogs.

I watched this on the news...The first report they said "Two Pitbulls Attack 8 yr old boy" then come to find out they are Mastiffs NOT Pitbulls!!

8-year-old boy mauled, killed by dog in Washington


By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Sunday, April 25, 2004


VANCOUVER, Wash. (AP) - Two dogs, believed to be bull mastiff-German shepherds, attacked and killed an 8-year-old boy, authorities said.

John Streeter was found dead Saturday in the back yard of a home where the dogs' owners lived, The Columbian newspaper reported in its Sunday editions. The mauling happened in Sifton, a small community northeast of Vancouver.

The boy, who was a neighbor, had been playing with two teenagers who lived in the home with the dogs. Sgt. John Horch estimated the victim weighed less than 100 pounds, while the dogs each weighed about 90 pounds.

May 19, 2004


Toddler dies after mauling by chow

Daniel Borunda and Tammy Fonce-Olivas

El Paso, Texas


See related story of this case


A 15-month-old girl died Tuesday after being mauled by a chow chow dog in the back yard of her far East Side home in what Animal Regulation and Disease Control said was the first fatal dog attack in El Paso in more than 20 years.

Alyssa Annette Villanueva died of neck and head injuries after the dog attacked her while she was near an unlocked sliding glass door leading to the back yard of the home in the 11900 block of Banner Run Drive, police spokesman Javier Sambrano said.

"Somehow the door became open, maybe from the actual dog," which was tied up on the back porch but became loose, Sambrano said. "The mother had to pull the child away from the dog, at which time she was bitten (on the arm) by the dog as well."

Crimes Against Persons detectives were still investigating late Tuesday, and no charges had been filed. Alyssa's parents, whose names were not released by police, had recently moved into the home owned by her grandparents, police said.

Some neighbors said they heard screaming shortly before noon after the dog attack. The girl was taken by ambulance to Thomason Hospital, where she died of her injuries, police said.

Neighbor Kendra Titus, 27, was taking her 20-month-old son out of her car after pulling into her driveway when "a gentleman stopped by, and he told me to get my little boy and get inside because there was a dog loose," she said.

Neighbors said it wasn't the first time the rust-colored chow had run loose on the block. It had been loose on at least two occasions in the past three days, they said.

Neighbor Erin Stives said she saw the dog on the street Monday and was concerned because several children live in the neighborhood. "I asked (the dog owner) in Spanish if it bit, and he said, 'Just don't move and it won't bite,' " Stives, 17, said.

The chow was voluntarily turned over to the animal shelter and euthanized Tuesday. It will be tested for rabies. The dog, thought to be about 3 years old, did not have current inoculations, Hinojos said.

If a dog bites a person, Animal Control should be contacted immediately, especially if the animal is still in the area and remains a threat to the family or others, Hinojos said. "If they bite once, they will bite again," he said.

The reason the dog attacked the girl remains unknown. Animal Control is conducting its own investigation to try to determine if the dog's attack was triggered by rabies, Hinojos said.

Woman Mauled To Death By Own Dog

Ward Killed By Rottweiler

May 31, 2004

BAKERSFIELD, Calif. -- A woman is dead after being mauled by her Rottweiler, authorities announced Monday.

Leta Ward, 65, was found by her husband, Don, around 10 p.m. Sunday. The coroner's office said her injuries were consistent with a dog attack.

Neighbors don't understand how it happened.

Bill Scheinder, a neighbor, said, "He was the type of dog that he was big enough that you knew you had to have a little respect for him. But, when they were around he would not even look at you wrong."

Schneider said the dog was well-trained and part of the family.

"He knew that the dog could be aggressive, so anytime somebody would come over he'd put the dog up," Schneider said.

Kern County Animal Control has quarantined the dog. Constentine said the dog has been signed over to the county and will likely be put to sleep. "We would probably do it within the next few days," Constentine said.

Spring family's dog attacks, kills 6-month-old

July 23, 2004


SPRING, TX -- A 6-month-old baby died Thursday night after it was attacked by the family dog, according to the Montgomery County Sheriff's Department.

Deputies report the incident took place in the 28000 block of Fox Lynn in Spring Thursday evening. The infant was crawling on the floor near the dog's food bowl when the attack occurred.

The infant was taken by Life Flight to Memorial Hermann Hospital where the baby was later pronounced dead.

The dog is a boxer mix and will be quarantined by the Montgomery County Animal Control Office. The sheriff's department indicated that no charges are expected in this case.

Boy dies after apparent dog attack

Posted on Thu, Jul. 29, 2004
Associated Press


MORRILL, Kan. -A 7-year-old boy died here after apparently being attacked by his bulldog.

No one witnessed Ryker Schweitzer's apparent attack Tuesday by his pet bull mastiff. The Brown County Sheriff's Department is continuing its investigation into the death.

Gerry Hertzel, who is acting as a spokesman for Ryker's parents, Brian and Kristy Schweitzer, said the boy had been outside playing by himself when his father went to look for him.

The child was found at the edge of a bean field away from the family's home, Hertzel said. He had dog bites on his upper body.

Ryker was taken to Sabetha Community Hospital, but doctors were unable to revive him, said Sheriff Lamar Shoemaker.

The Schweitzers' female bull mastiff was seized and taken to the Kansas State University animal sciences department in Manhattan for testing, Shoemaker said.

Forensic dental tests will attempt to match bite impressions taken from the dog with the boy's wounds.

Shoemaker said it wasn't clear if the dog has ever attacked before


This one three family dogs were invoved...it even shows pictures of the dogs...NOT PITBULLS http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAttacks/2004/Flordia.htm

And out of all these attacks, notice they say "DOG ATTACKS"
when almost ever pitbull attack says "PITBULL ATTACKS"
that is my problem w/ it...there are so many other dog attacks but the media always makes it out to be worse when it is a pitbull....
All the attacks above the victim died....but they didnt put "Boxer Mix Kills"
or "Rottweiler Kills" or "Chow Kills" it is just "DOG ATTACKS"!!

[This message has been edited by wahooratt (edited February 13, 2005).]

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wahooratt
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posted February 13, 2005 11:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wahooratt   Click Here to Email wahooratt     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
And yes, when looking for this I did find pitbull attacks too, I never said they dont attack, But when any dog attacks it is not because of its breed, but because of "Lack of Responsiblity of the Owners"

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TexasMom
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posted February 13, 2005 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TexasMom   Click Here to Email TexasMom     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by potter:
Yes, I had a gun handy that day, a ball bat to boot but deep down I did'nt want to kill anything. I believe if the shepard had attacked me or if the pit had been focus on me, I would have been in more trouble. I do know though that if he had had a child by the neck it would have been a very different scenerio. Even though I've downplayed this, I had to fight and fought hard. A child would not have gotten free.

I understand you not wanting to kill anything but what if it would of been your daughter that the dog attacked? He's already proven that he's vicious for whatever reason.
We live out in the country also and a few years ago I had to shoot 2 dogs. They slaughtered our baby goats the day after one of them growled at my son when he went outside. I was not going to take the chance of them doing that to one of my kids. The man that owned these two has about 10 dogs (they keep multiplying) that pack up and terrorize the neighborhood. One day they started stalking us while we were out horseback riding. Another time an elderly man was out for a walk and 4 of them stalked him, he ended up standing on a picnic table trying to beat them off with a stick until someone heard him yelling and came to help. They've attacked teenagers on 4 wheelers and they'll run deer down and tear them apart. BTW....these are all different type of breeds, dogs that have been dumped off and this guy feels sorry for them and starts feeding them.

If the owner or the authorities wont do anything about this dog I would. You shouldn't have to live in fear in your own yard.

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potter
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posted February 14, 2005 05:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for potter   Click Here to Email potter     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I am with you Texasmom, no more ms. nice.

Every county office involved dropped the ball from the deputy that was to scared to confront the dog, to the health dept. that did no f/u. The pit was wisked away to another family in another county.

I called both offices in that county and gave them the info. No one can they say did'nt know. The shepard is caged. The community for the most part has taken notice. Its been 6 mths and still no dogs running loose, I've been very surprised at that.

Since our attack several neighbors have called. Their stories are similiar, family pets killed. Cattle stalked, ect. There was a time around here when the farmers would have simply came together and took care of it.

DD is soon to turn 21. We did'nt have dogs as she grew up, as I did'nt have the time or the money to care for one.

The gun stays loaded now.

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AtlantaGAMom
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posted February 14, 2005 07:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AtlantaGAMom   Click Here to Email AtlantaGAMom     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I thought of this thread this weekend. My parents came to visit and my pit/lab mix was very afraid of them. By the time they left town my dogs were all over them. My GSD got stung by something and her face was swelled twice the size. Her eyes were just about shut and she couldn't breath; so we took her to the emergency room. She is fine now, but it scared both of us.

What this brings me too is my lab/pit mix was beside himself that he couldn't find her. He searched the house and then when my husband came home with out her; he was really upset.

I think you should be cautious of any animal. I also think that dogs are no different than humans in they decide if they don't like some one or thing. I do truly believe though that dogs know who is an animal lover and who is not.

Just be careful, but I just don't think people should lump sum everything and one.

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