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Old 10-03-2008, 08:59 AM
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I see and hear people everyday that say, I can't pay my bills, I can't afford gas, and Obama is going to change things and make my life better.

So, please tell me how he is going to do this? How Obama is going to make a difference in your life?

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Old 10-03-2008, 01:52 PM
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I don't care enough to get into a huge debate about this, but take a look at how the different candidates have represented themselves and their policies based solely on their websites:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

Obama:
*has a much more robust plan that gives specifics to the people.
*mentions a windfall tax credit
*mentions lowering taxes for middle class people
*plans to punish companies for sending jobs overseas/reward those that support American workers
*create 5 million new jobs in green technology
*protect the rights of workers
*raise minimum wage
*expand child care tax credit


http://www.johnmccain.com/Issues/jobsforamerica/

*IMO, McCain's site *says* they're going to do things, but doesn't give specifics for how those get accomplished. (even if you buy into "trickle down theory"--which I don't--it should explain how, say, decreasing corporate taxes benefits the people)
*says that "his policies will increase the value of the dollar/decrease gas prices" but doesn't talk about what these policies are or how exactly this happens.
*his energy program will create 700,000 new jobs.
*tax plan only mentions benefits for business owners, not every day people.

Basically, I just think that Obama's plan speaks more to the people. If McCain wants to reach more people, he should focus on the specifics about how his plan will help them.

Love,
Shannon


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Old 10-03-2008, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
*tax plan only mentions benefits for business owners, not every day people.
Who do think small business owners are?

Quote:
Basically, I just think that Obama's plan speaks more to the people
Obama's plan speaks to people who expect the government to take care of them.. and that is NOT government's role..

It is not the government's responsibility to pay my bills, put gas in my car, nor find me a job or put food on my table.. it's mine.








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Old 10-03-2008, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
plans to punish companies for sending jobs overseas/reward those that support American workers

How's he gonna do that? By lowering corporate tax rates? Hmm, sounds like something McCain has talked about.

Do you realize that the stuff from Obama's site that you listed doesn't mention how he is going to accomplish his plans either? And it completely misrepresents the number of people who would benefit from his tax cuts, since a large percentage of that number already doesn't pay taxes. So what is he going to do, give them more money they don't earn?

Also, given what is going on, do you really think he is still going to be able to give tax cuts to 95% of the people?

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Old 10-03-2008, 02:43 PM
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[QUOTE=Patty Gale]
Quote:
*tax plan only mentions benefits for business owners, not every day people.
Who do think small business owners are?

Quote:
Basically, I just think that Obama's plan speaks more to the people

I don't understand? Wouldn't small business owners get the tax break if they employed American Workers?

What I don't understand is how exactly does Mccain plan prevent large and/or small businesses from foreign employment?

I think the problem that alot of people have with Mccains plan is it doesn't explain much. Sure you can say the, "trickle down" effect will work, but how does that guarantee jobs in America?

So far, I've seen the "trickle down" effect work for other countries.

Believe me, I'm not really for/against either of them, because they will not address the problem with inflation correctly, but still? Can someone point a website that shows Mccain plan to create more american jobs and how? If I was abusiness owner, and I would save money giving @&%$ty jobs to foreigners, no matter how much taxes are cut,it's a win/win situation as far as the business owner is concerned, so what's the big deal?

Bush gave tax breaks and it didn't create more jobs? Why would giving tax breaks create more jobs for (us)?
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Old 10-03-2008, 02:52 PM
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Those who know me know that I am neither a McCain nor
Obama supporter.

However, will comment that yes, the government, overall,
city, county, state and federal all have a hand in what
businesses can and cannot do, what taxes they pay or
don't pay, which meet all regulations to stay in business,
whether or not they can handily and profitably, as a
US company just jump up and move any of their
operations overseas, and so much more.

Government is responsible for governing all business
activity within the country. Should they be? Who
knows what might happen if they weren't but the
fact is that at this time, it is included in their
responsibilities to the welfare of the Nation.

So, in effect, whether or not there are enough jobs to
supply demand, affordable gas and food prices, and all
else to do with what we can or cannot accomplish
through our personal choices and efforts are all
definitely dependent on government decisions/regulations,
etc...as I said, at city, county, state and federal levels.

All people who own businesses, large or small, can
attest to the fact that although the business is
'their own', that all decisions by governing agencies
and the IRS affect everything they do...and that
they must comply with all to stay in profit..or even,
to stay in business for themselves.

It's up to me to earn a living, find a job, etc..but
without the right people in charge in Washington,
there could be no job for me to find, thus, no
money to buy my own gas or food.

No one is totally self sufficient for their own needs,
it takes 'community' effort all around across the
whole country to be able to accomplish anything
we set out to accomplish for ourselves.

Which is why I view a candidate's ability to
'bring people together' for a common cause
very important, with the cause, of course,
being the well being of our country and ALL
the people in it...not just the big companies
and folks with money already running out
their ears...lol

DJ



Edited by: djsartin
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Old 10-03-2008, 02:53 PM
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If you go to his website and click on the little pictures, there are outlines of how some jobs will be created. This for example http://www.johnmccain.com/Issues/Job...ica/energy.htmoutlines 700,000 new jobs with the nuclear power plants and 30,000 jobs through clean coal technology. It doesn't specifically say, but the "Expanding Production of Oil and Gas," I would guess, would also create new jobs.

I'm sure there's more at the other links on his site, but that's just what I found so far.
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Old 10-03-2008, 03:12 PM
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I will also comment that the biggest issue with the
'trickle down theory' is that nothing trickled down
when they lowered corporate taxes substantially,
so that companies would be able to expand even
more and create new jobs, etc.

All that did occur was execs getting salary raises
to a million dollars, some even over that, per
month!

Which is what everyone is now screaming about,

DJ

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Old 10-03-2008, 03:19 PM
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http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/05/news/economy/jobs_august/ <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

Total job loss 605,000 so far for 2008

http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/dpc....;C=1&amp;D=205

Total job loss since 2003
2.7 million

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cewbd.t02.htm





I'm sorry, but both candidates say they will create more jobs with the green energy movement. It will not even put a dent in the total number of job loss vs.job gain.








Quote:
Originally Posted by djsartin
Government is responsible for governing all business
activity within the country. Should they be? Who
knows what might happen if they weren't but the
fact is that at this time, it is included in their
responsibilities to the welfare of the Nation.

So, in effect, whether or not there are enough jobs to
supply demand, affordable gas and food prices, and all
else to do with what we can or cannot accomplish
through our personal choices and efforts are all
definitely dependent on government decisions/regulations,
etc...as I said, at city, county, state and federal levels.
Thanks. I was wondering how far this fight against fascism could truely be addressed. Unless inflation is address properly, then the opinions of "how much government involvement should there be.." is a lost cause.
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Old 10-03-2008, 03:43 PM
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I have some questions about this and I really mean that, I would love some answers:

Obama:
*has a much more robust plan that gives specifics to the people.
Such as??? More money, free pre-schools, free health care. Do you really believe these things can ever be free?

*mentions a windfall tax credit
Okay, but where is the money going to come from?

*mentions lowering taxes for middle class people
Okay, but how will he make up that deficit?

*plans to punish companies for sending jobs overseas/reward those that support American workers
Punish How? Will he lower Corporate Taxes? I thought those taxes were going to be increased along with Capital Gains in his plan so that he could acheive his middle class tax breaks.

*create 5 million new jobs in green technology
How will HE play a part in creating these jobs...Incentives to the companies??? Again, where will this money come from?

*protect the rights of workers
More Unions? We already have enough companies going overseas, don't we?

*raise minimum wage
This is a good idea and is past due, but if he raises corporate taxes, raises capital gains, constructs unions, taxes more heavily the business owner, then expects there to be more left...I don't know if it can be done

*expand child care tax credit
Great...but again, where's the extra money going tocome from?

Edited by: DazzlePremier
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