posted July 12, 2001 11:55 AM
((Do you know the Lord? Did she? Did you ever once invite Him into your life as Lord and Savior? Did you ever turn everything over to Him and listen?)) I find this question of yours, "happyathome", to be EXTREMELY offensive – and, unfortunately, typical of the religious right. Blaming my poor sick mother and her caring daughter for her suffering is nothing more nor less than blackmail under another name -“you should have believed, then things would have been different” – or alternatively claiming that it was all due to some mysterious agenda known only to God … I can only hope that you have no conception of just how offensive this sort of accusatory rhetoric can be. Some weaker souls would doubtless find it hurtful or even frightening. I thouht that threats of hellfire as a method of coercing people to belief in christianity had died out in the days of the Spanish Inquisition - apparently not so! it's still alive and kicking in the US! ((>>Oh pur-lease! Your own hard work had nothing to do with it? Pull the other leg, it not only has bells on it, it plays the 1812 overture!<< Where have I mocked anyone's beliefs? Disagreed, yes; mocked, no. Yes, I have worked hard to maintain a budget, use my husband's income wisely, start up my own business. )) I did not say you had mocked anyone’s beliefs. I said that your claim that everything you had was due to your christian beliefs was a little hard to stomach. You yourself have just refuted that claim by admitting that you worked hard, budgeted wisely etc etc. Your beliefs I am sure helped you, but they alone did not bring this pleasant life to you. ((There are enough other types of anonymous hotlines available that IMO, your point holds no water as justification for phone sex.)) If you had in fact read my earlier posts instead of just picking at the supposed immorality of phone sex and my “lack of faith” (lack of my belief in YOUR faith, shall we say – you have no idea of what faith I may or may not have …) you would have seen that I stated “I have many times referred callers to helplines …” If you would leave your cosy safe world for a moment and enter the wider one that McPaige talks about, you would see that there are people who do not know that in many places there are, indeed, helplines where a man can talk anonymously and freely about – for example - his penchant for satin panties. All my employees have a folder which contains phone numbers and contact addresses for helplines of different types, in each of the countries from which we take calls. I have no idea of the efficacy or otherwise of these helplines; they are all ones, however, that have good reputations and are – where I can find them – without religious bias. Frequently, though, callers have said “oh I phoned them but I’d rather talk to you.” I am not here to judge the service of a helpline. But if a man would rather pay $x a minute to talk to me or one of my employees, than talk to a worthy helpline for free, does that make him immoral and me an active participant in the (purely theoretical) breakdown of his marriage? Well – does it? Why? To me, it is a liitle sad but just shows that nature makes everyone different and that even what apparently seems to many like the most horrid work can have golden moments.
There is another aspect too – how many men can say to their pals, or to anyone “Last night I phoned Lifeline Christian Help because I was so frustrated that my wife and I can’t have sex because of her illness” or “I have got this number of a psychotherapist where I can talk about XXXX, its free!” . Come on, how likely does that sound to you? In the locker room or in the bar, the guy will say “nudge nudge, the wife isn’t up to it nowadays, but I talked to this hot chick last night, phwoar! Made me feel a lot better, and I love the wife when all’s said and done but a guys’ gotta do what a guy’s gotta do, nudge nudge wink wink”. Now then – the men that happyathome knows may never have reason for that sort of conversation – but millions of men do! They are not sex-crazed perverts or weirdo kinky crazies. Those people have their own life – if it can be called that – and it is often, quite rightly, in a detention facility of some sort. Millions of men all over the world call phone sex lines! Normal, pleasant, everyday men. Ones who serve you in shops, do the legal work on your house purchase, who mend your car, who administer to the sick, who govern your country. Even those who preach in your churches! That fact alone doesn't make it "right" and it doesn't make it "wrong" either, but it does make it a pretty normal thing for a man to do - just about as "right" or as "wrong" as drinking or smoking or eating fat or salt or sugar, or following Manchester United, betting on a horse race or swearing. Not right or wrong in and of itself, but harmful when taken to excess.
Perhaps some of you do not know what is involved in phone sex. Well, I do - but I obviously have no intention of becoming graphic here on a public board. Despite what seems to be the overwhelming opinion on this thread, I do not wear a scarlet letter anywhere on my person and I am a respectable and moral lady. If you wish to know, I gave my e mail address in an earlier post. I will just ask - do you forbid children to read Winnie the Pooh or Wind in the Willows because they are fantasy? Should the sale of Harlequin novels be stopped because they are romantic escapism for women, or of Western novels because the reader may imagine life in the Old West to have been really like that? Ought Disneyland be closed because it is make-believe? Please note that I am not asking if you, personally, enjoy reading Harlequin romances or going to Disneyland. You need to realise that people fantasise about romance, adventure, travel, history, wealth … many men, like it or not, fantasise about sex! The imagination is a valuable thing. We can go places and do things in our imagination that are in our real, physical life unlikely, dangerous or impossible. We don’t have any intention of actually DOING these things! I repeat my earlier post that even a six year old knows that Disneyland is not real! And the same applies to my callers. Are you going to put rigid constraints on a person’s imagination? Or forbid them from sharing that imagination with anyone? You may just as well forbid Dickens and Shakespeare – their writings being products of their imagination – if we are going down that path. Forbid the novels of the Bronte sisters, forbid novels set in exotic places or Tsarist Russia. Permit only dry-as-dust factual history books and geographical atlases and guidebooks. Forbid phone sex. It is a continuum. Where do you call a halt to imagination? In the phone sex world, generally a halt is called when illegal activity enters the imagination. Note I said illegal - not immoral (which is a mater of opinion, not legislation) and not impossible (which is a matter of flexibility, wealth, and stamina). Loys of highly rated novels contain action of the most immoral, impossible and illegal, and are none the worse for it, because we know they are a product of the imagination. The same with phone sex, except that we draw the line much more sternly on the illegal, for various reasons.
Please – would SOMEBODY please tell me why being a phone sex actress in a discreet and mature way is likely to harm anyone at all? I thought that was the basic premise of this thread – jobs which could harm the children – or am I wrong?
posted July 13, 2001 12:02 AM
Seena, I apologize sincerely for offending you. That was not my intent. My point was simply that one has to seek God with a belief in Him and in His power in order to see His answers. No one is blaming your mother for her suffering. I know devout Christians who have been ill and suffered - they gain hope from their faith and knowledge that when their time on earth is over, they will spend eternity with the Lord. I don't believe illness and tragedy are punishments from God, but I do believe He has a purpose in allowing them to happen. Please accept my sincere apology for going overboard and, yes, being insensitve. >> -“you should have believed, then things would have been different” – << They may or may not have been different. One of the titles given to Him is Comforter, and sometimes that is just the help He gives. What you view as threats of hellfire to coerce people is what I see as irrefutable truth and the consequences of not accepting it. There is no coersion involved in a person's decision to become a follower of Christ. It is a decision of the heart, not one that a person can be scared or bribed...into making. The thought that the Bible could be true and an eternity in Hell got me thinking, but my decision was based on what God did for us through His Son, Jesus. >>Where have I mocked anyone's beliefs? Disagreed, yes; mocked, no. Yes, I have worked hard to maintain a budget, use my husband's income wisely, start up my own business.<< I did not think anyone accused me of mocking others. Your statement about the other leg playing the 1812 overture was mocking what I said. I have not mocked anyone, and I don't appreciate being mocked. >>I said that your claim that everything you had was due to your christian beliefs was a little hard to stomach. You yourself have just refuted that claim by admitting that you worked hard, budgeted wisely etc etc. Your beliefs I am sure helped you, but they alone did not bring this pleasant life to you.<< I did not refute any claim that I have made. I would not be where I am today without the Lord. HE gave me the ability to work hard, HE provided me a job, HE gave me intelligence. I seek God's will for my life. God does not generally drop money in people's laps (although I have personally received money "out of the blue" at precisely the time I needed it.) >>“I have many times referred callers to helplines …”<< I did read your other posts - perhaps you should have read mine more carefully. My response simply reiterated that there are other forms of help available, that a pastor was just one of many. The fact that a person might be uncomfortable with a pastor does not mean the only other counselling option is phone sex. I'm glad that you refer troubled people to help lines, and I have learned from this board that not all callers are sexual deviants. That doesn't make phone sex right in my opinion. (I am still entitled to that, right?) I don't buy the philosophy "Well, 'everybody' does it, so it must be OK." Now, if you're done picking apart my beliefs, let's get back to the topic. If anyone is interested, my original-on-the-topic-post is on page 6. Good night and God bless!
posted July 13, 2001 01:50 AM
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. I never said otherwise. I hope you would fight for my right to hold my opinions as hard as I would fight for you to hold yours. As I said, I am sure that your faith has helped you to succeed in life. Faith - of whatever sort - generally does that. A successful, happy and satisfying life, however, is not the exclusive preserve of "Christians"; it is not necessary to "love the Lord" in order to be a good person and no-one living a peaceful, honest, law-abiding lfe is going to be thought less of in the "afterlife" (if there is one, about which I am very doubtful) for not "seeing the light". The above paragraph contains my opinions and beliefs. Your opinions and beliefs doubtless differ. But opinions and beliefs is what they are, nothing more and nothing less. I value my opinions and beliefs just as much as you value yours. You would not appreciate it if I were to repeatedly quote to you, bits of some book that you think is full of myths, or tell you to trust in a character who you held to be someone in a rather inaccurate history book, would you? That, I am afraid, is what your preaching amounts to to me and, I suspect, to many others. I am truly sorry if my being so blunt offends you. I do not wish to insult your, or anyone, beliefs but I am trying to get you to picture yourself and your preaching as you appear to those who do NOT hold your sort of belief. YOU are the one who veered off-topic by insulting my dead mother and twisting my words to return to the question of religion. I accept your apologies for the unintentional insult. I was the one who posted ON the subject initially, only to be answered by a barrage of preaching, quotations from the bible and accusations of sin. A fine tolerant, gentle, turn-the-other cheek you lot are, aren't you!
I am sorry if you felt I was mocking you by mentioning my leg that plays the 1812 overture; perhaps that is British sarcasm biting too hard and I should remember that American humour is very different - two nations divided by a common language I think they say! What I meant was that I personally think that giving all the credit to your faith for your success in life is in my opnion stretching things too far - and you DID admit to working hard and budgetting sensibly - YOU did that, not anyone else. I believe that a higher power of some sort gave us free will and that we can use that free will for good or ill. What we do with our life is not dictated for us by any "One". It is within MY personal power to turn whatever I do that is legal into good or into evil - perhaps evil is too strong a word - let me say to advantage or disadvantage. I do not depend on the "Lord" to show me a way, I have open eyes and can see where I am going by myself.
I would still LOVE to hear HOW and WHY, a mature responsible mother harms her children by working a few hours on a phone sex line when they are tucked up in bed or at kindergarten or school; if you are SO concerned about keeping on topic as you claim, find me some answers to that which do NOT involve biblical quotations or pleas for me to accept the lord!
posted July 13, 2001 02:51 AM
I am not sure what you want someone to reply to "happyathome" except your religious beliefs or how they had something to do with the topic. I guess it got confusing to me with all the religion in the last few posts. You shared your opinion, the very same one that's been said for over a year now. Did you have something further to add to the original topic of phone sex work? I am not interested in your religious experience because it has nothing to do with the topic of the board. That said, it doesn't mean I consider you wrong in your moral beliefs OR your opinion.
Some of us can not "buy" "absolutes" in morals, some us SEE things in color rather then Black and White. Do you not respect other peoples religions? If you say you do then please be understanding and loving as I know you MUST be in the fact that a Jewish mom may be reading this board. Maybe she is worried about paying her bills... but not in the mood to convert. She may get offended. If you want to debate the reason I don't believe in absolutes then why not just say so! If you feel your religion was "mocked" you can stop that by not bringing it up again ;o) YOU have the power to stop the mockery if you feel slighted.
Let me make sure I am understanding you. hmm you believe the Bible is the word of god. Did I get that correctly? Ok. I think I got it now. Can we move forward from that now?
No one is here to mock religion... in fact we aren't even here to talk about it which was the reason we asked it not be done. We asked it not to be discussed in order not to offend others. I was raised with good manners... my mother told me that when someone asked me to stop doing something, that I should at least take their feelings into consideration. I set the same example for my child! Seena would not offend you with foul language, can you appreciate that? Why do you feel the need to defend yourselves about it anyway? No one wants to take your religion away from you. Can't you turn the other cheek?
I have received money out of the blue too... some call it luck ;o) But most ladies have to work to earn money because many know that money will NOT drop from the sky each month on a regular basis. God makes opportunities available to us that will help us provide an income on a monthly basis... it's in the form of a job. I asked my friend the phone sex operator how much money she made last year. She said $62,000 (mind you she works full time to do that well) If thats the amount of money she NEEDS to make... what would you suggest she do? She has no skills and a 2 year associate degree in business... which she is using btw in her work. She said she is saving up money for her kids to go to college, and has a lot in the bank. She is getting AHEAD in life rather then trying to "catch up" all the time. She said won't do it forever, once the kids graduate HS she knows she will retire, if not before that. She's young still and she will be able to travel then with her hubby as well as help her children get started out in their lives. Isn't that what we all want to do? Phone Sex work is just ONE way that you can. There are many options though.
No one is here selling the philosophy "Well, 'everybody' does it, so it must be OK." It's not for sale, because its a fact that the world works that way, ex: different countries have different rules, morals, laws, and religions. Nobody said you had to agree, and you already told us a few posts back that you didn't agree with the rest of the world.
Ladies are looking for work at home jobs with no investment, no selling of a product, no MLM, no Pyramid schemes, no typing, no crafting, no auctions, and no scams. Some do not have skills to offer services, or the services they offer such as sewing already saturate their city. Some women don't want to bother their friends and family with recruiting or having parties. Some women do not want to sell a product. There aren't absolutes in working at home right? There are lots of options available. And whether you agree or not, morally or not, phone sex is one way she can earn money without the above mentioned situations. We aren't asking you to do it, we aren't telling you that you should. Let's allow the women who aren't interested in a religious debate the chance to learn if it is even an option to them. They may find out they don't want to do it! And that is perfectly OK!
Its good that you learned something on the board and that you say it ;o) Maybe you and others like you, can learn that life and religion are not the same for everyone in the world. Since the internet is worldwide then so is this board basically. There are other religions reading and posting to the board and it doesn't make them wrong. Is Christinaity itself an absolute? It's ok to be Jewish isn't it? Is it wrong to be a muslim or believe in Budda? Why haven't you answered me about that before? It's ok isn't it if other people's religions do not have absolutes? Please tell us! I welcome your comments and replies to these important questions!
posted July 13, 2001 01:57 PM
Seena, Apology accepted. I must say that while I did use religious reasons to support my opinion, I did my very best to stick to the topic in my first post. My "off the topic posts" were responses to what I interpreted as direct comments to/questions about my post. My mother also taught me to be polite. My responses may not have been what everybody wanted to hear or what everybody agrees with, but I was responding as one does in a dialogue.
McPaige, My response about mocking was very specific to a comment made by one person, not an overall accusation. You certainly have not been mocking!
I am staunch in my beliefs, but not completely closed minded. While I don't always agree to others, I attempt to understand and at least try to see where they're coming from. >>Is Christinaity itself an absolute? It's ok to be Jewish isn't it? Is it wrong to be a muslim or believe in Budda? Why haven't you answered me about that before? It's ok isn't it if other people's religions do not have absolutes? Please tell us! I welcome your comments and replies to these important questions!<< Since you have asked more than once, I guess you really must want an answer to those questions. Boy, am I going to hear(read) about my response to this one. I guarantee that you and many others will not like it. This is a question about religion, so I will answer it with scripture. John 14:6 says, "John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.'" Assuming that one believes in an afterlife, this states clearly there's only one way to spend it in what most would call Heaven. We all tend to look for some spirituality, whether it is in organized religion or an "inner spirituality." I believe that believers in other faiths are misguided. I believe there is only one true God. Jewish people worship the same God as Christians, but do not recognize Jesus as Messiah (except for Messianic Jews). They're in the right station, but they're waiting for the wrong train. Muslims, as I understand, also worship the God of Abraham, who is the God I worship. They view Jesus as a great prophet, but not as Savior. Other faiths that do not even recognize the Judeo-Christian God for who He is, I believe, are totally in the wrong station. Now you know, McPaige, and I'm not looking forward to the "hate-mail" that will doubtless be posted. I do know that many out there will think I am just as misguided as I consider them to be because spirituality defines, to a large extent, who we are.
posted July 13, 2001 02:32 PM
>>hmmm deception.... like the way you keep your own sex life hidden from your children? Aren't you then deceiving them already because you hide your sex life with your husband? You surely don't do it in front of them... right? If it's out of plain view then it must be "hidden" and deceptive. Wouldn't they be shocked to find out mommy does it for REAL even more? What if they walked in on you and the hubby? Isn't that more "shocking" then a phone call?<<
I don't think the fact that we keep our sex life private is deceptive. We don't go around announcing to our friends and family, "Hey, we had sex last night." It's just a private matter. My children will be given honest information on a need to know basis, as their maturity level dictates. My 3 1/2 year old knows that beef comes from cows, but she doesn't know about the slaughter houses. There is certain information that she just doesn't need yet. Relating this to phone sex, I don't suppose it will directly harm the children if they don't know about it, but that does bring in the deception factor.
posted July 13, 2001 03:20 PM
Hello Mcpaige 67, For some time now, I along with many others have been following this discussion topic....I'am in one hundred percent agreement with you and other phone fantasy workers..However, it's taken me a long time to even register or post...Yes I know that this is not the place as earlier stated , but I would also enjoy the same are of employment..Do you have any hints for those of us who would like to work in this industry? Many companies offer employment as contractors ,but which companies are genuine offers?Just a lady who feels like a walk on the wild side..
quote:Originally posted by McPaige67: I am not sure what you want someone to reply to "happyathome" except your religious beliefs or how they had something to do with the topic. I guess it got confusing to me with all the religion in the last few posts. You shared your opinion, the very same one that's been said for over a year now. Did you have something further to add to the original topic of phone sex work? I am not interested in your religious experience because it has nothing to do with the topic of the board. That said, it doesn't mean I consider you wrong in your moral beliefs OR your opinion.
Some of us can not "buy" "absolutes" in morals, some us SEE things in color rather then Black and White. Do you not respect other peoples religions? If you say you do then please be understanding and loving as I know you MUST be in the fact that a Jewish mom may be reading this board. Maybe she is worried about paying her bills... but not in the mood to convert. She may get offended. If you want to debate the reason I don't believe in absolutes then why not just say so! If you feel your religion was "mocked" you can stop that by not bringing it up again ;o) YOU have the power to stop the mockery if you feel slighted.
Let me make sure I am understanding you. hmm you believe the Bible is the word of god. Did I get that correctly? Ok. I think I got it now. Can we move forward from that now?
No one is here to mock religion... in fact we aren't even here to talk about it which was the reason we asked it not be done. We asked it not to be discussed in order not to offend others. I was raised with good manners... my mother told me that when someone asked me to stop doing something, that I should at least take their feelings into consideration. I set the same example for my child! Seena would not offend you with foul language, can you appreciate that? Why do you feel the need to defend yourselves about it anyway? No one wants to take your religion away from you. Can't you turn the other cheek?
I have received money out of the blue too... some call it luck ;o) But most ladies have to work to earn money because many know that money will NOT drop from the sky each month on a regular basis. God makes opportunities available to us that will help us provide an income on a monthly basis... it's in the form of a job. I asked my friend the phone sex operator how much money she made last year. She said $62,000 (mind you she works full time to do that well) If thats the amount of money she NEEDS to make... what would you suggest she do? She has no skills and a 2 year associate degree in business... which she is using btw in her work. She said she is saving up money for her kids to go to college, and has a lot in the bank. She is getting AHEAD in life rather then trying to "catch up" all the time. She said won't do it forever, once the kids graduate HS she knows she will retire, if not before that. She's young still and she will be able to travel then with her hubby as well as help her children get started out in their lives. Isn't that what we all want to do? Phone Sex work is just ONE way that you can. There are many options though.
No one is here selling the philosophy "Well, 'everybody' does it, so it must be OK." It's not for sale, because its a fact that the world works that way, ex: different countries have different rules, morals, laws, and religions. Nobody said you had to agree, and you already told us a few posts back that you didn't agree with the rest of the world.
Ladies are looking for work at home jobs with no investment, no selling of a product, no MLM, no Pyramid schemes, no typing, no crafting, no auctions, and no scams. Some do not have skills to offer services, or the services they offer such as sewing already saturate their city. Some women don't want to bother their friends and family with recruiting or having parties. Some women do not want to sell a product. There aren't absolutes in working at home right? There are lots of options available. And whether you agree or not, morally or not, phone sex is one way she can earn money without the above mentioned situations. We aren't asking you to do it, we aren't telling you that you should. Let's allow the women who aren't interested in a religious debate the chance to learn if it is even an option to them. They may find out they don't want to do it! And that is perfectly OK!
Its good that you learned something on the board and that you say it ;o) Maybe you and others like you, can learn that life and religion are not the same for everyone in the world. Since the internet is worldwide then so is this board basically. There are other religions reading and posting to the board and it doesn't make them wrong. Is Christinaity itself an absolute? It's ok to be Jewish isn't it? Is it wrong to be a muslim or believe in Budda? Why haven't you answered me about that before? It's ok isn't it if other people's religions do not have absolutes? Please tell us! I welcome your comments and replies to these important questions!
posted July 13, 2001 04:13 PM
"Happyathome", I am so glad you learned a little something about a phone actress as you said. Now hopefully you and others too, can learn a little about religion too. You are well versed in your knowledge and your love of your God and religion are respectable. No one is going to give you hate mail and if they do, you do not have to defend your beliefs to them. (same is true for the operators) I wanted to make you admit that other religions existed... thus far on this board no one else had the guts to do that... or the CLASS to even care. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR BELIEFS. We just have to be tactful and KNOW that the Jewish think they are right too, that the Muslims think they are right... as so on down the list. This simply means that ONE religious view is NOT an absolute. People hold different beliefs and MORALS because they base them on different religions. Some (whether we like it or not) do not base their morals on religion at all, yet they still have them! I don’t feel I promoted hate at all. If anything I tried to promote sharing knowledge of the business.
Happyathome said <<<Assuming that one believes in an afterlife, this states clearly there's only one way to spend it in what most would call Heaven. We all tend to look for some spirituality, whether it is in organized religion or an "inner spirituality." >>>
I will say we should never ASSUME what someone else believes. We should instead just be tolerate, loving, listen with an open heart, and respectful of each other! There is a benefit to being "knowledgeable" and learning things about other ways of life. Isn't that WHY Cheryl posted the question originally? Also, and this we can all agree is truth (I hope lol) is that Religion is man made... Spirituality is what YOU feel inside toward your creator! A religion is the manner we choose to connect to our Creator in the physical world. Since all Religions are made man and man is imperfect we tend to argue about it's imperfections. Some stated laws governed by man are imperfect and MAYBE we can also apply that to religion too. God allows us to have different viewpoints. It is just more important the way YOU FEEL your creator in your life. Some (this applies to all religions) attend a "church" (of any religion) and only go through the motions of the doctrines, yet FEEL nothing. I am sure you agree.
<<<< I believe that believers in other faiths are misguided. I believe there is only one true God. >>>>
We understand and respect it. Please just do the same for others, that was all that was asked We had already read all the Christian viewpoints, so we wanted others as well. In other words if I was to post quotes from the Koran here or some other book I FELT was the TRUE word... it "might" offend you. I wouldn't want to offend you with religion or foul language either. I would never nitpick at the way a person lives their life, chooses their work, or how they raise their children. It just isn't a nice way to interact with others. I am sure you agree.
OK so now the big secret is out! WHOOHOO And guess what? It's fine and it isn't going to cause hate of religion, hopefully it will cause UNDERSTANDING... that’s what God wants anyway. MAYBE we can also in a nice loving manner try to understand another viewpoint... the one a phone actress has. We can now get back on topic all UNITED and in a friendly manner. When we don't offend the Jews, the Christians, the Muslims, or the phone sex operators of the world... they can have the chance to teach the rest of us. Just to listen to Seena's experiences will not change your morals, but maybe we can LEARN a little. She probably has good things to say as well as bad things to say about her business. I just think she deserves the right to do it without her religion questioned. As humans we are MORE than just a job. Maybe ask her some questions about the business that really concern you. She has so far proved herself to be willing to share and reply, and she has very much been TRUTHFUL... in her OWN personal truth. You never have to agree with her to “hear” her. We now know all your religious beliefs........ but allow her to express her work ethics too without calling her a sinner, a harlot, and so on. (not picking on you personally just a general statement for all) I don't read romance novels either, I just think they are stupid and mindless garbage. lol We do not disagree about everything.
I hope we can now get past the Bible quoting because we all understand that not everyone appreciates it, and that it's not everyone's book of choice. btw I am not Jewish I just respect the fact that others might be! It doesn't matter "WHAT" I am to have a discussion about a job.
And to address your 2nd reply to my post: <<<< My children will be given honest information on a need to know basis, as their maturity level dictates. >>>
Maybe an Actress too uses the same rule so therefore it would not be deceptive to them. Let's suppose that Julia Roberts has a 7 year old. How does she explain that one of her most famous movies she plays a prostitute? If she doesn’t address it with her child (it being a Rated R film is a given) and doesn’t explain herself then is she also being deceptive? I just am not sure that adults get super detailed about their work to their kids anyway. My father worked in a factory, I never knew growing up exactly what he did in it. I just knew where the building was and the name of it. I never knew until I was an adult what "position" he held in it. What is the difference if a mother says “mommy sells Tupperware” or “mommy talks on the phone”. Its not being deceptive to just not bother them with explanations and details. I think with raising kids, you just let them be kids. If I was struggling really really badly with my bills, I wouldn’t want my child to know. Maybe that is deceptive too, but hey I think they need to just be kids while growing up and to be bothered with adult stuff.
posted July 13, 2001 10:09 PM
Oh dear, "happyathome", you've just done it again - answered a question of Mcpaige's not with your own opinion but with a quotation from a book that - for all you or I know - Mcpaige may think is a load of codswallop! Why do you answer a perfectly reasonable question with quotations from the bible? Do you not realise how intensely irritating and even insulting that is, expecially to someone who may well believe in the fundamental truths of another book entirely, but who had the manners and discretion NOT to quote it at you at every juncture, but instead uses their OWN opinions and their OWN arguments, which hold far more weight when expressed cogently, than the endless quoting of phrases from a book which you and some other people believe to be true, but which many people hold to be less than true. Please can we have your opinions stated WITHOUT the crutch of bible quotations - or maybe I'll start quoting, too - and I won't quote from the bible, and you probably won't like it, just as I and many others don't like your bible quotes. They are unnecessary and irrelevant in this context. You are obviously an intelligent, astute and sincere person - your thoughts about phone sex necessarily involving one in deception show that!
posted July 14, 2001 10:53 AM
Hey, I also thought I might add something else. People were mentioning the deception of the job for phone sex actresses. For instance, I am guessing (and she will correct me if I am wrong) Seena doesn't share her job with everyone she knows. My opinion is that happens because the operators dont want the moral religion discussion that everyone SAW right here on the board. Again, I can say it validates the point that actresses and really anyone does not want their morals judged by ANY human being. God sure, but YOU no. (frankly if you are right about the train station thing, I can find the right train on my own, I dont need a guide) It kind of validates that people just do what they have to do in order to get along with others. Don't you think so?
And another comment too. I have this friend who has a job she does not tell everyone that she does. She is the dreaded Telemarketer!!!! A few times she would tell somebody and she had them freak out on her for bothering them during their dinner (as if it was her fault some other company called them). In general people dislike telemarketers because they sort of invade our homes (privacy) and can be pushy (preavchy) when we say no. You might compare comments I made about the preaching to a telemarketer. It doesn't matter what you are selling, sometimes I just don't want bothered. But I don't look down on the telemarketer OR the christian. I just try to tell them NO that I am not interested. If they are good at their job as telemarketer or they are a good christian then they back down ... cause maybe later I will change my mind about it and buy or join what they wanted me to in the first place. Does that make any sense? ( i am aware that a religion is more important then a telemarketer, but hopefully you see what I meant)
It's just weird to me to have hostility toward a JOB (I am referring to my friend the telemarketer's experience now not this board). It's not even what we call a "career" ... its a job. A career is something you DO devote your life to. A job is usually something we do to get by.
posted July 14, 2001 02:10 PM
"I wanted to make you admit that other religions existed..." Of course they do - I just happen not to agree with them, and I know that everybody thinks they're right. You did not promote hate at all - if I implied that, I apologize. On the contrary, I think you have just opened up further discussion. I have seen how others who hold the same beliefs as I do have been slammed, though.
Let me just say that I do respect that there are folks who don't have the same morals or beliefs as I do. I am interested in other's viewpoints (why else would I be here?) While I might disagree with what others believe, I would not be offended by quotes from their doctrine. Foul and graphic language, yes, but mature, intelligent discussion, no. I stand firm in my convictions, but am not closed minded to other people's points of view.
One thing that I have seen on this board, and this question is for anyone who cares to answer, how is calling a phone sex line (particularly on a regular basis) NOT infidelity on the part of a married person? (I'm not talking about on the part of the operator - Seena and one or two others have made it clear that most of you deteach yourselves from it and are just acting.) Maybe he knows it's fantasy, but isn't he still seeking someone other than his wife for sexual gratification?
posted July 14, 2001 03:04 PM
Seena, I am changing the tone of our discussion here. I did not start out intending this to be a debate of my beliefs and why I am right... I am steering back to the original topic [I know, "thank(whatever you believe in) big sigh"]
I just reread your first two posts here. If what you said is true, and I have no reason to think you'd be dishonest, you obviously manage your business in an ethical fashion. I understand that for you, and probably many actresses, you can separate yourself from the job. I guess the principle is not much different from me putting on slacks and a blouse instead of shorts and a T-shirt when I'm ready to work, even though I work at home. Although I believe that any sex outside of marriage is wrong, as is deception (how many men are going to tell their wives what they did while she was away?), I suppose a man calling now and then is not really harming anyone.(Still cheating in my book, but he and God are the only ones who know - no one else is getting hurt.) There will likely be some harm to the relationship if the wife ever finds out, but I suppose it is no worse than a spouse charging $1500 to the credit card on a customizable card game, hiding the cards, and intercepting the bill. I was angry when I found that bill, and I would be if I discovered my husband had been calling phone sex lines. What really gets me is that there are people who are addicted to the lines, who use it instead of communicating with their wives . . . You said that you have referred people who seem to really have a problem to counselling services, and I applaud you for steering people who need it in the right direction. The real problem that I have with the industry as a whole is that there is the potential that access to it could make an already faltering marriage even worse. It is no different, in my opinion, than if I saw a man who was in a bad marriage and gave him attention that he did not get from his wife. Even if it did not go as far as physical intimacy, I would still be putting something in his path that might cause him to stumble. I'm interested to know how you feel about those few specific instances, not the rhetoric about how they all know it's fantasy, most men don't even talk about sex...Just as you've heard the "fundamentalist" view, I've heard all that, too.
quote:Originally posted by happyathome: <<<"I wanted to make you admit that other religions existed..." Of course they do - I just happen not to agree with them, and I know that everybody thinks they're right.>>>
Right. No absolutes to morals no absolutes to something people believe in. while you may FEEL and BELIEVE there are absolutes based on a book you FEEL and BELIEVE to be true... you admit that others do not. That means morals are NOT absolute in the world... and in life. In heaven - perhaps... but we aren't here to debate that. That was kinda my point from the get-go.
<<<I have seen how others who hold the same beliefs as I do have been slammed, though.>>>
I know just what you mean about personal slams. That was also my point. There were oh... I dunno.... 6 pages of it tossed at the operators. Check out page 1... the first slam starts with the term PROSTITUTION. While it may certainly be an opinion, it is no more NICE to say than "bible thumpers". (btw I never called anyone that) So you took offense to your religion being insulted... some took offense when they were called harlots.
<<<While I might disagree with what others believe, I would not be offended by quotes from their doctrine. Foul and graphic language, yes, but mature, intelligent discussion, no. I stand firm in my convictions, but am not closed minded to other people's points of view. >>>
You are welcome to stand firm to your convictions. But you also asked Seena if her or her mother who passed away knew the lord. Was that on topic? No offense to you, but again it just "seemed" like you were trying to save the operator from the life that you "felt" was sinful. Sorry, I just call it like I READ it. The best way to find out if the work is bad for a mom is to learn about it. When you ask questions, you get responses.
<<<One thing that I have seen on this board, and this question is for anyone who cares to answer, how is calling a phone sex line (particularly on a regular basis) NOT infidelity on the part of a married person? (I'm not talking about on the part of the operator - Seena and one or two others have made it clear that most of you deteach yourselves from it and are just acting.) Maybe he knows it's fantasy, but isn't he still seeking someone other than his wife for sexual gratification?>>
Ok what if he is a lousy communicator? lol men just aren't so great at it sometimes. What if calling a phone sex line (as trite as some may see it) IS his first step. Maybe the marriage is having SEXUAL problems and the man needs plain old advice on how to talk to his wife about it. Probably not every call, sure I can grant that... but it is a possibilty.
Also it all depends on how each couple determines what cheating is. Put religion aside, because some people do not live your way and we agree about that. How is phone sex different then a dirty magazine? Of course you debate what porn is and how awful it is, but just put your personal feelings on it aside a moment. Every man has looked at it once, some more often. While they look at it what do you think they are doing? We don't have to even say it. So how is a voice guided fantasy any different then the one a man already has in his head? If you are a realistic enough to know that a man is having "solo sex" on occasion... then is the fantasy in his head cheating too? One mans fantasy might be the pictures and another's might be the voice guided story. And no one is saying that every man on the planet calls. I am sure it doesnt appeal to some men..... because they just have a different way of experiencing the fantasy. Also remember that every relationship differs on the definition of cheating. Your hubby going to lunch with a female co-worker may very well be cheating to you. To me it isn't. Some women are real aware of their husbands having "solo sex" with themselves. Some prefer to believe their husbands dont do that at all.
I have to let Seena answer how many married men call on a regular basis. I am gonna take a guess, but I don't really know... I would guess a guy who calls most often is the probably the single guy anyway. Part of the service is the companionship from what I have heard. We already mentioned the socially awkward men handicapped etc. Those guys probably are the more regular callers because they need it more to have a woman.
Just an interesting comment here too. Often when a husband and wife have arguments the wife will cut the hubby off from sex. (its a whole separate debate) Maybe a married man calls then one time and after never calls again.
When your husband or any man (not picking on your personally just making general statements) touches himself, do you know what image he is using his head? Of course not. He could get turned on from watching a female newscaster, or even seeing a Sears catalog with lingerie in it. My mother told me that in the 50's when she was younger that men were using catalogs with pics of women in bras. So something as seemingly wholesome as a bra ad could be in his mind while he does the deed. Why the heck was Baywatch such a popular show? Do you think men watched it for the plot? lol Women dont think about sex the same way as men do.
Then one more thing I will say. A business is not trying to lure your husband in. If your husband calls a phone sex service, then chances are he knew where to find it. So he was already looking at porn or etc to even find it. Porn is not available everywhere, meaning he had to go seek it out too. You cant buy it in a grocery store. If you are married to a man who nevers touches himself, or a man who never views porn then you dont even have to worry.
quote:Originally posted by happyathome: Seena, I am changing the tone of our discussion here. I did not start out intending this to be a debate of my beliefs and why I am right... I am steering back to the original topic [I know, "thank(whatever you believe in) big sigh"]
I just reread your first two posts here. If what you said is true, and I have no reason to think you'd be dishonest, you obviously manage your business in an ethical fashion. I understand that for you, and probably many actresses, you can separate yourself from the job. I guess the principle is not much different from me putting on slacks and a blouse instead of shorts and a T-shirt when I'm ready to work, even though I work at home. Although I believe that any sex outside of marriage is wrong, as is deception (how many men are going to tell their wives what they did while she was away?), I suppose a man calling now and then is not really harming anyone.(Still cheating in my book, but he and God are the only ones who know - no one else is getting hurt.) There will likely be some harm to the relationship if the wife ever finds out, but I suppose it is no worse than a spouse charging $1500 to the credit card on a customizable card game, hiding the cards, and intercepting the bill. I was angry when I found that bill, and I would be if I discovered my husband had been calling phone sex lines. What really gets me is that there are people who are addicted to the lines, who use it instead of communicating with their wives . . . You said that you have referred people who seem to really have a problem to counselling services, and I applaud you for steering people who need it in the right direction. The real problem that I have with the industry as a whole is that there is the potential that access to it could make an already faltering marriage even worse. It is no different, in my opinion, than if I saw a man who was in a bad marriage and gave him attention that he did not get from his wife. Even if it did not go as far as physical intimacy, I would still be putting something in his path that might cause him to stumble. I'm interested to know how you feel about those few specific instances, not the rhetoric about how they all know it's fantasy, most men don't even talk about sex...Just as you've heard the "fundamentalist" view, I've heard all that, too.
posted July 15, 2001 09:42 AM
Hi Ladies sorry I screwed up with the 2nd post above. I was a little too tired last night when trying to reply!
You know I was thinking about it this morning "Happyathome" when you asked how is phone sex not cheating for the man. I thought, oh ok well we can try to explain. BUT you said this:
<<<Let me just say that I do respect that there are folks who don't have the same morals or beliefs as I do. >>>
posted July 15, 2001 09:33 PM
Hi guys,(I should girls) I new to this and I'm glad I clicked on this particular subject matter. I have no fierce agree or disagree,, but I have to tell you it takes guts to do that thang you girls do! Good for you, sometimes we have to make sacrifices and weigh the good and the bad, it is truly a personal decision. And unless the ney sayers can present these ladies with other reputable options that pay the same kinda denero's then I believe they should reach down deep and find that little ugly spot that keeps them hoping that they can use god and religion to judge others, come on now, people... and whilst you are praying try doing a little soul searching... (no smilies needed)
quote:Originally posted by roses too: Hello Mcpaige 67, For some time now, I along with many others have been following this discussion topic....I'am in one hundred percent agreement with you and other phone fantasy workers..However, it's taken me a long time to even register or post...Yes I know that this is not the place as earlier stated , but I would also enjoy the same are of employment..Do you have any hints for those of us who would like to work in this industry? Many companies offer employment as contractors ,but which companies are genuine offers?Just a lady who feels like a walk on the wild side..
Hi Roses sorry you got ignored. I think we were busy trying to settle a silly disagreement that should have never taken place I can't refer you to a work opportunity since I actually don't do it for a living (my best girl friend does). But I think they are general rules to finding ANY work at home job.
I run a Virtual Assistant business, and I can tell you the things I used or did to get into it. I feel they can be applied to work at home type of job.
You should not have to pay to work, never made sense to me, small fee or big fee, why pay somebody who claims to need workers.
First I would sit and assess my skills. Write it all down and see if you can't do something you already know. Really you should think about how you feel morally about doing phone sex a while, not overnight. Do lots of research from different angles. In your shoes I would just look up different stuff on the net, look for books, and anything I could find on the subject. Get some knowledge.
Once you did your search and feel you have enough information then just contact different companies. See who is hiring, do interviews. Ask lots of questions about legalities, if the company has references, if you have to sign a contract, so on. Ask the company if you can talk to one of the operators, and ask her questions. Find out how long they have been in business, longer being better of course. Personally I would talk to several companies and just go where I felt most comfortable. Trust your instincts, if something doesn't feel right then there is probably a reason. Plus another important thing is just because you work at home it doesnt make it any less of a job. Hard work, creativity, and effort will always make you money.
If you do end up doing a phone sex job and for any reason you don't like it... dont force yourself to do it! Anything work I ever did, I always knew right away if it was REALLY for me. Hope that advice helps you some.
posted July 16, 2001 01:47 PM
McPaige said >>…I am guessing (and she will correct me if I am wrong) Seena doesn't share her job with everyone she knows … the operators don’t want the moral religion discussion that everyone SAW right here on the board... << Oh how true! Even more, I can’t stand the incredulity. “You? You! But – but – you’re not …” No, I’,m not glamorous, blonde, pretty, curvaceous or 22! I’ve just got a good voice and a wicked imagination! Some of my friends know; if my mother were still alive I just know she would think it was hilarious, but she would say “don’t tell your father!” because I just know that he would have been puzzled and slightly disgusted. >>how is calling a phone sex line (particularly on a regular basis) NOT infidelity on the part of a married person? Maybe he knows it's fantasy, but isn't he still seeking someone other than his wife for sexual gratification? << To a large extent I agree with you, I just take a different viewpoint, which enables me to accept it a little easier. Have you seen the research on how many people fantasise when they are doing the “real thing”? I will grant you that doesn’t make it right – but fantasy seems to be a large and important part of the human condition, and I accept that easily. Look at fiction novels of all sorts, films, TV series … look at the most glorious “Old Master” paintings – so much fantasy in all of them. Would it be better if I described my job as a fantasy coordination facilitator? I think it is debatable really whether phone sex is, truly, an infidelity. If a young child who is brought up as a devout christian, muslim, jew or buddhist is taken to Disneyland, that child doesn’t suddenly lose its belief in the family’s deity and figurehead, does it? The child KNOWS that Mickey Mouse is fantasy, and that Christ or Mohammed or Jehovah or whoever is real. Something like that is in process in the male brain (we all know they’re just big kids don’t we!). >>I did not start out intending this to be a debate of my beliefs and why I am right...<< Sorry, Happyathome, you’re at it again. That needs to be rephrased to “…why I believe I am right.” But I don’t suppose you’ll agree. Lots of other people also KNOW that their belief (different to yours) is right, and have just as eloquent a series of arguments and quotations. You BELIEVE you are right. You are CONVINCED you are right. It is a matter of opinion. You have a BELIEF. >>What really gets me is that there are people who are addicted to the lines, who use it instead of communicating with their wives . . . The real problem that I have with the industry as a whole is that there is the potential that access to it could make an already faltering marriage even worse…I'm interested to know how you feel about those few specific instances<< Good questions. Right. I have no intention of being an apologist for anything, but worrying about people who get addicted to the lines, is a bit like worrying about cars because someone may cause a road accident with one; worrying about alcohol because some people become addicted, about banning motorbikes because young kids like to dress up in leather and ride them fast, or banning flashy department stores and credit cards because some people become shopaholics. People even get addicted to exercise! In any case, I really do not believe that addiction is a real problem. Men and women react differently to problems in their lives and, especially, to relationship problems. It takes a few months of working intensively on the lines to realise how fortunate we women are, in many ways, compared to men. We have far greater internal resources, more supportive friendships and can express ourselves better. Men and women - in general – react differently to problems. Whereas a woman with a problem in her life will take comfort and ease her problems by “talking it over” with friends, counsellors, priests, therapists or even telephone psychics(!!!) a man is apt to rush to something physical as a temporary comfort – smoking, drinking, sex, driving fast cars, drugs … of course that is a generalisation but much of what I say has to be a generalisation. The majority of callers are, I am confident, lonely, frustrated single (for whatever reason) men, who unwillingly find themselves in an apparently-celibate life through a combination of circumstances. These men use phone sex lines to get through a certain period in their life; when that period has ended, they go off in a different direction, sometimes, I am sure, feeling rather embarrassed at what they have done and annoyed at the amount of money they have spent. They are NOT in any sort of happy or fulfilling relationship. If they were, then they could talk with their partner about what they want to talk about with me or my employees. If a marriage is teetering so badly, with such poor communication, that a call to a phone sex service will make it fall apart completely, then I really think that it is only a matter of time before it collapses anyway. All phone sex does is alter the time frame a little.
Perhaps there are specific instances where a man cannot (for whatever reason ) communicate effectively with his wife. I don’t want to go into details, especially on a public board, but I speak regularly with a gentleman who assures me that he has an “otherwise” happy marriage. I have no reason to disbelieve him; he has been calling regularly for nearly 2 years, from the same address and phone number. He calls my service about once a week because he has a “thing” for pink satin panties and has told me that his wife cannot or will not accept that aspect of him. His level of usage rarely varies, other than when he is extremely stressed at work, when he may call twice in the same week. I will grant you that he is among a minority.
In the remarkably few instances where a caller is calling the lines obsessively – well, I don’t know about in the States, but in the UK the industry is self-regulated by a governing body; there are severe penalties for breaking the rules and one of the rules is that any individual who appears to be using the phone lines excessively or obsessively should be questioned as to their use of the lines and given an appropriate referral telephone number. We live, I hope, in a free democratic part of the world and what a person does – within reason – with his own resources – is his own choice. He is not beating his wife, blowing carcinogenic smoke in your face or driving his car while drunk. In 99% of cases, he is sitting quietly at home, feeling quietly and pleasantly aroused for some reason(very common amongst healthy men from 16 – 96) and wants to hear a nice female voice to help him imagine he has company.
As McPaige so rightly says, a lot of women “use” sex as a weapon – punishing their husbands for real or imagined misdeeds by refusing them sex. A lot of women believe that once they pass 40, or 50, or some theoretical age, that they “shouldn’t be interested in that sort of thing” any longer – and they will make their lack of interest clear to their husband! I have a dear friend who I found to my horror was “rationing” her husband to ten minutes once a fortnight. She declared that was all he needed now he is past 50. I would not be at all surprised if he went elsewhere. I know he still loves and respects his wife, but really …!!! I cannot condone unfaithfulness in a comitted monogamous relationship – but at the same time I cannot condone my friend’s behaviour and have made my views clear to her. I am not by any means saying it is right for a man to then go elsewhere for any type of sex – two wrongs don’t make a right! – but I would put phone sex forward as a “lesser” of several evils. After all, there will be no nasty surprises after the (I hope!) reconciliation – no diseases, no tell-tale blonde hairs, no-one turning up on the doorstep 18 years later asking for daddy … One thing you learn working on the lines is just how very fragile are the egos of men, and just how recklessly and cruelly some of them are destroyed by women, despite – or probably because of – the macho, tough guy face that so many of them feel they have to show to the world. OK - enough for now! We have still not found out how being a phone sex op. harms the children, have we?
posted July 18, 2001 12:58 AM
Speaking of addiction, what are we all still doing here?? :O Actually, Seena, I found your response enlightening. I couldn't resist the opportunity to tell you that, and that, although (surprise, surprise) I don't agree with you, you have expressed yourself so well that I see your side of it-See, I'm not totally closed-minded! To my own surprise, I found myself thinking that you obviously have a system of morals and ethics. I will go out on a limb and assume that you live by it, and I respect that. What I find surprising there is that a person who is not working as a phone actress out of pure desperation would have well established morals/ethics >>Have you seen the research on how many people fantasise when they are doing the “real thing”? << I guess I really am naive in some ways! All of my fantasies involve my husband - really! I can't fathom even imagining ... with anybody else. Maybe I should remove the rose-colored glasses? >>If a young child who is brought up as a devout christian, muslim, jew or buddhist is taken to Disneyland, that child doesn’t suddenly lose its belief in the family’s deity and figurehead, does it?<< Of course not, but we're not presenting those characters as deities either. Interesting point, and I understand the comparison. To me it's comparing apples and oranges. >>I did not start out intending this to be a debate of my beliefs and why I am right... Sorry, Happyathome, you’re at it again.<< Semantics - is that what we're discussing? We all know there are other opinions.
>>worrying about people who get addicted to the lines, is a bit like worrying about cars because someone may cause a road accident with one; worrying about alcohol because some people become addicted,...<< People do get addicted to all of those things, and your comparisons gave me something to think about. What makes phone sex different in my eyes is that sex outside of marriage is inherently sinful, whereas the other activities you mentioned are not, unless they reach the point of excess. I agree with all you said about how different men and women are. It's a wonder sometimes that we communicate at all.
>>there are severe penalties for breaking the rules and one of the rules is that any individual who appears to be using the phone lines excessively or obsessively should be questioned as to their use of the lines and given an appropriate referral telephone number.<< This was something I did not know before I read it in one of your earlier posts and your further clarification here. I feel a bit better about it knowing that people who seem to have a problem are referred for help. So, I guess at least some of the people involved in this work do have compassion for people who are stumbling. Thanks for the enlightenment! Wives abusing their "sexaul power" if you will - we actually agree on something, for many of the same reasons. From a Christian standpoint, I will add that the Bible even says spouses shouldn't withhold sex from one another. Christian or not, it is a hurtful thing to do. From a secular point of view, I agree with you that phone sex is the lesser of two evils. There is less hurt, and definitely fewer surprises, than a physical affair!
Seena, forgive the repitition, and the straying from the topic, but it bothers me that what I wrote in my earlier post questioning whether you knew the Lord was hurtful to you. I know I have apologised once, but I just wanted to express once more how truly sorry I am that my words upset you.
I think this will be it for me here - I don't think there's much else to say, at least by me. You in particular, Seena, have added a dimension to the business that I had not considered. My original opinion that it is not a job anyone should do has not changed, but my opinion of the people who do it has.
quote:Originally posted by BeenThere: It's painful and very upsetting when you can barely provide for your children. You go without food just so they can eat, and cry when they are asleep because it hurts so much to not be able to give them what they deserve.
I know as a mother in that type of situation that you will do whatever you need to in order to make things better, period. I see nothing wrong with a legitmate job of "acting" on the phone. After all, how many movies do you see with actors and actress's that are "acting" out sex? I suppose that is prostitution as well.
God isn't paying her bills. God isn't putting food on her table. God isn't babysitting for her so she can work 2/3 jobs to support her family. God isn't providing her with an education so she may further herself and get out of the slump she is in.
God doesn't exist in my world - I'm my God. I am the one that controls my destiny, not some character in a fairy tale written thousands of years ago. I have no one else to thank but myself for what I have been able to do with my life. I went from being in that situation to living quite comfortably now with no-ones help but my own.
I as well as you am entitled to my own opinion, if you don't like it - so what. Put the credit where the credit is due, not with God, but with her. She's the one trying her best to do what she can for her children, not God.
well i am prety far back still. but... i agree with you 100% it is nice to have something to belive in... but god does not come to me and say oh here darian here is 2000 to pay all of for you and your daughters food, babysitter, car, car insurance rent, utilities to me as of yet... oh and he doesnt say oh and also here is some money for your school books too!! i take care of my daughter by myself, and yes that ia right.... i am a phone sex actress at night and i go to school dufing the day. i make pretty damn good money too... you have to look and look to find a good paying company sometimes. i am a damn good mother. i only attend school part time. my daughter goes to the sitter part time. besides for 5 hours per day i have the whole day and evening to be with her, she starts school in the fall. i have money to buy her good healthy food, to pay for health insurance for both of us every month as well. i work while she is asleep. when i am finished with school i will find a job in my career goal.
yes i have an extremely creative dirty mouth on the job. i laugh at the calls when they are over.. and sometimes during!!! thank god for the mute button!!! lol and i also talk to a great bunch of lonely guys who are sweet as sugar!! once in awhile a call comes through from some sick bastard and i refuse it. and. i am in the most popular requested phone girl in my company so i make $$$$.
i do have a b friend and he thinks it is hilarious. he is also proud of me that i have picked up my finances and enrolled in school too. i am a good person. i am a good mother and if some people dont like my temporary career than guess what??? too bad!! i could care less. as long as i am taking care of my child.
i have heard some really funny ones out here. phone sex is like drug dealing, phone sex is cheating!!! phone sex is prostitution!!!! lol
and jewel no offense, but when you and yiur fam were broke and you prayed and than your neighbers brought you some food. if that is your thing all the luck... but i am too independant to rely on the good will of neighbers. i rely on myself i am not some brain washed person who beleives in a book beciase i was told to. when i was getting really financially screwed up working a minumum wage job, i was down to peanut butter and jelly and bread for my daughter and i. i beleive jewel thinks that id i would have prayed to god that my neighbersn would have brought food to us too, well i did pray and nothing happened i was desperate so i thought i would try, instead i found an easy fun job that i could work for from home
quote:Originally posted by Coloblondy: I believe that we should exhibit integrity in every walk of our life. Where does one draw the line? If phone sex is ok is cyber sex. Many friends have shared with me their frustrations, feelings of betrayal and hurt because their husbands were involved in those items or pornography. Ask yourself this 'How would I feel if I found out my husband or boyfriend were involved in this?'
It takes their affections away from where it should be and when that happens the relationship can slip away very quickly.
Do you want to be apart of that? I would much rather teach a man how to turn his affections on to his wife by teaching him what true love making really is...and it is not phone sex. It is admiration, affection, intimacy. It does not start in the bedroom before you fall asleep at night but in the morning when they wake up by getting her coffee, putting toothpaste on her brush, starting her shower and it continues throughout the day.
Ok time to get off my soap box. Maybe that is another subject.
Bye for now.
many relationships have problems, but phone actresses are not to blame . we did not call these men and tell them they must call us. they do it on there own free will. every caller's situation is different. i get calls from many couples together for 3 some fantasy calls. and many of the guys are carrying long distance relationships too ther wives would much rather them call us tha cheat when he is lonely and well frustrated.
quote:Originally posted by rosebinnc: The question was: Are there Jobs a work-at-home mom shouldn't do?
Let me first state that I intend to leave religion out of this. I think I can just stick to facts and make the same point. I also want to make it clear that I am a woman, but that does not prevent me from learning the facts about human sexuality, or communicating those facts to others in an appropriate way. And I do know the facts. What I don't know by my own expereince, I have heard from first hand accounts and/or qualified professionals.
I find it interesting that several women have justified being phone actresses by refering to wrongs recieved from men. Here are some of the things they say: My husband left me with kids to feed. I was mistreated/abused as a child. I am pregnant, unmarried, and don't have any other income.
Does that justify making a nice income on phone sex? (Let's not kid ourselves, the one phone service multitudes of men will pay for by the minute is sexual stimulation and/or gratification.)
Let's consider some facts. Phone sex is in the same continuum as cybersex, nudity in movies, tittilating literature, and so on. It varies only in degrees from finding johns on the streets. It is still about the same core proposition; the buying and selling of sex. Whether it is done by a live show, by physical contact, by intercourse, by printed words, by printed images, by audio, by any other kind of technology or media, it is sex for hire. I know the ladies who do it will deny it, but you know it is true.
Another fact: the buying and selling of sex is intricately, shall we say, intimately, related to abuse of women and children. Again, people who make money off the sex biz will deny it, but the research proves otherwise. You can find out for yourself if you spend some time in the courtrooms, or observe events in a jail, or talk to women in a shelter, or have a frank conversation with a mental health professional or gynecologist. I won't debate which one leads to the other, but men who buy sex are also men who abuse sex partners and their children. Most likely, these two behavior patterns feed off each other.
Therefore, it logically follows that women who sell sex participate in a culture the denigrates women, that allows men to procreate without providing, that encourages men to cheat on wives, beat lovers, slap babies for crying, molest little girls and/or little boys,and so on. And, it equally follows, that women who sell sex, even by telephone converstations, to make money to replace the income of a good husband, or to get revenge on a molester, are keeping the cycle going.
Even the example of a woman who was expected to serve coffee in meetings just be cause she was female, and to help male associates remember to send flowers to thier wives and lovers, fits this. That is less exploitive than making a baby and running away, or keeping a wife in terror of the next beating, but it is still exploitive. However, there are ways to tactfully inform employers that some things are too demeaning.
Men are sometimes asked to do immoral or unethical things, like acting as pimp, or concealing a theft, or looking the other way on sexual harrasment. No one is obligated to violate conscience to keep a job. (I know about this, too -- my husband's first career was submarined by a supervisor who was using the office for some dubious enterprises.)
No matter how you slice it, promoting a system of men exploiting women and children is immoral.
It has been observed that "those calling it immoral are those who don't have to do without anything." I have experience in doing without. By my experience, I have the authority to assert, there are other ways to provide for children. In the USA, there are other ways. (If anyone needs some practical ideas on how to live well on a pittance, I'll gladly share some of my favorite resources.)
But I do not feel hatred or contempt for women who sell sex solely to provide for thier children. That *is* better than sleeping around and neglecting the children. I have a history of working to improve the situation of unwed mothers, children without supportive fathers, abused women, and so on. Amoung other things, I have worked in a program that enabled women fleeing from pimps. When push comes to shove, I'm for the woman, and the children. Again, if anyone wants to know how to live better on less money, I have practical ideas anyone can implement.
On the other hand, some of the women I have known who conducted sexually tittilation acts for pay were not working to have food anc clothes for their children. They were attracted to having a classy apartment, a closet full of designer clothes, and dining on lobster and caviar. Those are not needs, they are wants. I've fed my family on potatoes, onions, beans, and over-ripe cucumbers, rather than go along with exploitation.
So, I conclude, yes, there are jobs moms at home should not do. Selling sex is even more degrading than pyramid schemes. It encourages the exploitative men to further abuses. The woman who thinks she is in control cannot actually know that her participation will not egg a man on to cheat on her neighbor, kidnap her best friend, divorce or abandon her sister, beat her mother, molest her child, or rape her own self. Tolerating sexploitation enables the abusive men to continue, to refuse to seek help for thier antisocial behavior.
Now, for some other facts. Christians are forbidden to either buy or sell sex, to engage in sex with anyone but his/her lawful spouse, to engage even within marriage in degrading acts, to profit by the buying and selling of sex, to enslave anyone, or to condone trade in sex acts or human lives. I do not say this to impose Christianity on those who do not adhere to it, or to judge any person who claims to be a Christian, but just a statement of what Christians believe.
By the way, Christianity is NOT a religion. It is a lifestyle based on well-documented historic events and on a continuous, and therefore contemporary, stream of "soft" or experiential evidence. No other system of belief, be it a religion or a philosophy, or whatever, is factual, logical, and fully compatible with reality; nothing else confronts the causes of human suffering as hard-headedly. Nothing else I've ever seen, heard, or read about, is more compatible with the quest to end suffering.
That, too, is something I know by research and by first-hand accounts, not by some vague disembodied emotional experience.
you are so ignorant. lol please........ get your facts straight. i am sorry you feel the way you do. but there is nothing wrong with pornography.. many relationships use it to enhance their sex lives together or when they are apart. pornography does not lead to men abusing wives and children. just because a guy wants to read a dirty book or wack off on the phone doesnt mean he will start to be an abuser. that is the funniest i have heard yet........
posted July 19, 2001 04:41 AM
wooohoo!! you are so right!! and secondly some of these woman are so closeminded. i mean come on i have heard all the most ridiculous and funny reasons on here why woman shouldt do phone sex... big deal the guy calls gets his rocks off hangs up. we dont meet them invite them over and some of our calls we give them advice to enhance their sexual realtionships.
it is just a job ladies.. an acting job!! a fun job. it is not for everyone, but it doesnt make it wrong for us..
quote:Originally posted by Jewel: Well, I will concede that you do seem to be very articulate and confident. I don't agree with you that what you have chosen to do is moral, and there is nothing that would ever convince me otherwise. There is probably nothing I could say that would change your mind either. However, I think you have presented your side of the issue very well. I know the statistics on masturbation. I said it is sinful, not that people don't do it! Some people do it quite frequently. That still does not make it OK. I may be a right wing Christian conservative, but I have not buried my head in the sand. I simply do not buy the idea "If it feels good, do it." I believe there are absolutes. Yes, there are gray areas, too, but there comes a point where a line is crossed. No one's activities should harm another physically or emotionally. You have said that your points have been missed - well, so has at least one of mine. No person is less valuable or wholesome or important or ... because of their job or any choice they have made. Perhaps there is no distinction to you, but to me there is a huge difference between saying that an activity is "bad" and saying a person is "bad."
[This message has been edited by Jewel (edited June 06, 2001).]
masterbation is sinful??? you are joking right???? lol my b friend is 3000 miles away right now. i masterbate at least once a day!! there is nothing wrong with it. it is natural and healthy to masterbate as well as it it natural and healthy to have sexual fantasies.
see i am different i guess i do ot lead my life according to a book.
quote:Originally posted by Jewel: This is my last post here. The previous two or three posters are correct in that I have made my point many times. I will say once again that I rejoice in having insults slung at me because I know that people who are doing God's work will face that, and unfortunately, much worse persecution. I am saddened that I have not found the words to be more effective in getting people to understand. Yes, I believe phone sex is wrong, and I don't believe religion can be kept out of a discussion of a moral issue. Sorry if you don't like my religion. I am disappointed that I have not been able to adequately express the bigger picture - that faith in God and acceptance of Jesus as Savior and Lord truly is the answer. I did not consider, and this was naive on my part, that someone might enjoy this type of work. I would find it degrading, a last, desparate resort.
phone sex or no phone sex i feel sorry for you becuase you feel the need to live by a book to beleive in a book, well that is wha it is jewel its a book!!!! someone already on here proved to you tha the bible is degrading toward woman!!!!! and you beleive that to be the way to live!!! i feel for you... i really do. i beleive in my child, myself and my mate. i learn new things everyday and i form my opinions and live my life by what i have learned and by what i have seen and lived through... not because a book tells me to live a certain way!! it sadens me that some parents shove religion down peoples throats so bad that they do not hav any opinions of their own,
i can never ever have a conversation with a christian person without them throwing the bible in or telling me "well the bible says........." who gives a dogs *** what the bible says?????? i for one do not.
quote:Originally posted by wahminGA: How many actors/actresses would be asked to work at three in the morning. And lots of them refuse to do those nude/lovemaking scenes. Even the ones who don't make movies that the WOULD take their kids to see.
And Jewel has just as much right to say that she believes it's wrong spiritually, morally and personally as you do say your tired of hearing her say it. And ya'll were rather rude in what you were saying to her. Her religion encourages them to go out and spread the word of God. You'd be suprised of just how many of people don't go to church (of any kind) simply because they don't know which one to go to. There are lots of choices out there. Too many in fact. It can get very confusing trying to find the right one. Jewel is just showing everyone here the path she has chosen. Maybe someone reading this will decide to follow Christ, realizing that they are not at the end of their rope. That they do have more choices to choose from than phone sex.
actually many actors ad actresses are called onto set at 3 am..... although jewels religion has her spread the word of god.. this board is not to spread the word of god, that as far as i thought was not the topic at hand. and i am sorry but unless i ask about ones religion i dot want to be told about it...... just like the the religious people who knock on my door i always tell the them politely "if i was interested in your religion i would have joined, if i become interested i know where to find you, please dont knock on my door ever again!!"
amd ofcourse we have more choices than phone sex.... that is why i am halfway finsihed with my computer course.... my job from home allows me more time with my child, it allows me to buy things fr her and to pay our bills, it allows me to pay for health insurance for us and our car. it allows me to work any hours i please.... and it is entertaining. when i take my dughter to the store and she sees a dolly that she absolutely adores i know that i can buy it for her.. when my daughter comes home from the babysitter when i get home from school, i have lots of time to play with her and teach her things take her out ect.... if i had a reg 9 to 5 job plus had to go to school i would be away from her at least 14 hours per day and i am not willing to do that. she is my life. ofcourse i can take a minjmum wage job or a 8 or 9 dollar an hour job, but you miss the whole point!!!! this job allows me to pay for my education!!! phone sex is fun and good money with the right company but it will not be my career. that is why i go to school, my career i am studying for will allow me to work outsode the home part time with a full time income, i will work when my daughter is in school, she starts in the fall. at least i know that after i finsish school i will be able to be able to pick up my kid from school and be with her. if i dint have this phone sex job i wouldnt be able to afford to go to school so that i can have a better career....
so when you read this dont just read it, listen to what i m saying and understand it please
quote:Originally posted by Naomi: Speaking of personal morals...
Where do you draw the line? If phone sex is ok, what if some one wants to watch, what if someone wants to touch? Why is one ok and not the other?
Is one "acting" and the other prositution? Is it ok for one person and wrong for another?
How can morals be ok for one person and not for another? Is killing ok for one person?(that is a whole nother can of worms!) I believe in absolutes. Either it is wrong or right- across the board. If it is wrong for the Pope it is wrong for every one.
That is my 2 cents.
Naomi
so what if someone wants to watchand touch?? if everyone is consenting than kudos for them!! lol
quote:Originally posted by McPaige67: Thank you for an opinion that was not "preachy", rather you stated an opinion. So let me pose some questions back.
I am wondering how many marriages that you or anyone else knows of, were destroyed by phone sex? Can you show us some statistics? Y'all are posting theories of the destruction of children, morals, and marriages. But how many do you know of? I am not speaking of sexual addiction, thats a whole other topic. I am talking about a husband who calls a company 1 time or up to 6 times because the wife has been away or sick (meaning ill). How has that destroyed a family? What if... like all the other times the husband has done his "business".... the wife never found out? Most men dont announce to their wives, "hey guess what I just did while you were in the cellar!!!" But they ARE doing it. I'd like some evidence instead of assumptions or theories. If it is as destructive as y'all say then there must be proof available everywhere!
Another senario: A 22 year old single male college student calls a divorced phone sex operator. Who is hurt here? What if both the operator and the caller are single with no kids? Who is hurt then?
Bars, clubs, discos, all hurt people too basically. They serve alcohol and give men a chance to flirt with women who they aren't married to. Is a bartender enabling an alcoholic by serving drinks? Does it make it ok? I dunno but it is LEGAL. Y'all keep bringing up this point, "if certain morals are ok for one, and not another then I can kill my neighbor and make it ok". Now let me tell you where that theory fails.... it's against the LAW. Yup, it is illegal to kill, and there is no religion mixed in with the governement. Before you say that the United States government was based on Christian morals or signed by Christians, let me remind you that Thomas Jefferson who signed the Declaration of Independence was a Unitarian. America was based on freedom. Free speech and freedom of expression.
Its potentially dangerous to let your kids ride a bike. Life itself is "potentially" dangerous, yet we deal with it and move on. I havent heard a thing to say phone sex is anymore potentially dangerous than driving a car is.
Here is a question. Would you leave your husband for calling a phone sex service? Isnt it a little different say if he developed a relationship with a woman online and did it, then say compared to calling a business? Say he called a business one time. How would you handle it? Now, think about him cheating on you by sleeping with another person just one time. I can imagine leaving my hubby for a real affair, but I could get over the phone sex service. Now would I love it if he called a service? Not sure I would personally, but I do KNOW I could move on from it. If he dared to really break our vows and cheated on me with real sex its a little different. Too bad Bill Clinton couldnt have just stuck to phone sex instead of staining poor Monica's dress.
I kinda liked it when you asked why the husbands weren't talking to their spouses. I'd say its pretty clear those men are lonely for whatever reason. McDonalds doesnt ask you WHY you want a big mac, when you order it, they just give it to you. The presence of the phone sex industry DOES NOT cause people to stop communicating in their marriages. Look at it like this... the husband needs to communicate with someone other then his spouse, but cant afford therapy. So who else does he call? Maybe it is only the nonbelievers calling. Maybe Christianty and every other religion is safe from phone sex. A Man has to SEEK out phone sex and look for it. They only advertise in adult magazines etc. Its not in the phone book for goodness sakes. More than likely there is something wrong with the marriage. It happens. Only addiction is going to contribute to the problem. Rock music doesn't cause teens to take guns to school. Lots of things contribute to it. Alcohol doesn't doesnt kill people, but YOU over do it and YOU get into a car and YOU might. When you take something too far it can be destructive yup. Even food can be an addiction. But how do we tell the difference between an overweight person with a gland problem, or a person who is just addicted to eating? It's not up to the waiter to not serve the fat person food because they are over weight. Is it? A man's sex addiction is "bad" obviously, but its not something the actress can control, cure, or contribute to. HE is the one who must seek help. Actually maybe if Jeffery Damer would have just called gay phone sex lines to experiement with his obvious homosexual tendencies, maybe just maybe, he wouldnt have had to act them out for real... been ashamed and murdered innocent young men. We don't know do we? But gosh darn it, I wish he just called a phone sex line instead. Dont you? Here is the issue. Heck some women think that their husband going to lunch with a female co-worker is as good as cheating. Some people dont see phone sex as cheating, so whether you all disagree or not, its here and legal and it willcontinue to exist. The problem here is that you ladies almost all are under the assumption that the operator is getting off on the call. It's an acting job just like any actor, its PRETEND and thats what an actor does. Are we afraid that one of our husbands might call and like some actress just a little better and try to meet them for real? Here is where Seena mentioned Fear... think about it. We cant sit here and say carrots cause cancer and proclaim it is truth with out facts. We might not like eating carrots and think they leave a bad taste in our mouth, but it doesn't mean we can or even should ban them from somebody elses diet. And we cant tell them they shouldnt eat carrots if they like them. Whats good for one person is not good for another. Thats been proven by look at the whole world as a whole. Every country sees sex differently. In a perfect world there is no crime, no starvation, no unemployment, no divorce, no children dying, no religious battles, no mental retardation, no mental illness, no debt, no disease, no poverty, no sadness, no marital problems, no ignorance, and yada yada yada. We dont live in that world. So what we do know from what operators have already told us is that lonely men call them. Handicapped men call them, diseased men call them. Where would you like those men to go when they need the attention of a woman? Do you know a place where a woman can flirt with a guy who has never been flirted with before can go? What about the socially awkward men? How many women will talk openly about sex or answer questions with those men? My friend talks to those kind of men and she treats them good too. Thats a lesson we could all learn. Isnt she doing just a little something good too? How many people just turn their head away from a person in a wheelchair too afraid to look incase we "catch" what they have. My friend talks to them and enjoys it. I am very glad I understand how women can enjoy this work, I try above anything else to being understanding.
you are so right on!!!
are we supposed to blame the grocery store if we had a weight problem!! blame the bartender if we were alcohalics!! lol and ofcourse blame the phone sex girl for their marital problems ect...
i mean it all anom we dont know who the guy is who is calling us!!! the guy doesnt know who we are either, so here we are $#!&ing up there lives when thy have no clue who they are really speaking to,..... ugh...... gotta go hava request call... big tipper... he he love "dirty" darian....lol
quote:Originally posted by sexydarian: and jewel no offense, but when you and yiur fam were broke and you prayed and than your neighbers brought you some food. if that is your thing all the luck... but i am too independant to rely on the good will of neighbers. i rely on myself i am not some brain washed person who beleives in a book beciase i was told to.
Ok, I said I wouldn't post here again, but I have been following it. The above quote was a personal attack, so I felt I should respond. First of all, my prayer was that God would provide for us at that specific time - HE chose to do so through our neighbors, and just enough to get us through to the next paycheck. Second, I don't do luck. There is no such thing as coincidence. Third, the idea that I am brainwashed is utterly preposterous. I was not raised in a Christian home - after becoming familiar with the Bible, I decided for myself that it is true. No one told me to believe it. I CHOSE to accept God's gift of grace, and thus my salvation through Jesus Christ. Finally, I am not too independent to depend fully on the God who created and loves me. I don't ask for handouts, my family does not depend on the welfare system (not judging anyone who does, just saying I don't), and my kids don't go hungry.
No one says you have to agree with my beliefs or my assertions about phone sex, but namecalling and insults have no place here.
quote:Originally posted by sexydarian: phone sex or no phone sex i feel sorry for you becuase you feel the need to live by a book to beleive in a book, well that is wha it is jewel its a book!!!! someone already on here proved to you tha the bible is degrading toward woman!!!!! and you beleive that to be the way to live!!! i feel for you... i really do. i beleive in my child, myself and my mate. i learn new things everyday and i form my opinions and live my life by what i have learned and by what i have seen and lived through... not because a book tells me to live a certain way!! it sadens me that some parents shove religion down peoples throats so bad that they do not hav any opinions of their own,
i can never ever have a conversation with a christian person without them throwing the bible in or telling me "well the bible says........." who gives a dogs *** what the bible says?????? i for one do not.
Don't feel sorry for me. No one has proven the Bible is degrading to woman. Anyone who thinks that has not read it and does not understand it. So many non-Christians pull out the part that says "wives submit to your husbands" and completely miss the part where it tells husbands to treat their wives as Christ treats the church. HE laid down his LIFE for us humans. He was a servant to others - Jesus washed the feet of his disciples. A number of the strongest people mentioned in the Bible are women. The women presented for us as examples in the Bible are inteligent, strong, hard-working women. My dear, you are the one in need of pity and prayer for being so dead-set against the possibility that the Bible could be true.
quote:Originally posted by sexydarian: and i am sorry but unless i ask about ones religion i dot want to be told about it
No one is forcing you to read my posts. If you don't like what I have to say, don't read it! Just as you have the choice to send away people who knock on your door, you have the choice to skip my posts.
posted July 19, 2001 03:45 PM
Well, I think we have got the makings of a rather petty argument springing up here - it is! it isn't! 'tis! 'tisn't! and so on ad infinitum, instead of the interesting discussion we were having earlier for a short while. It is a pity any of us feel the need to bad-mouth anyone else for their beliefs or that lack of knowledge about a particular subject - be it the bible or phone-sex - is treated as an opportunity for veiled and not so veiled insults. I would still like to hear from anyone who can tell me why working in phone sex might be bad for the children - wasn't that the original query, somewhere back in the Dark Ages? Happyathome, I think you and I probably have more in common than we initially imagined!
quote:Originally posted by seena: Happyathome, I think you and I probably have more in common than we initially imagined!
You could be right!
I hope we all can see that their are good people on both sides of this "debate" and, that while some of us my never agree with others on certain issues, we're all worthwhile human beings with valuable opinions.
posted July 19, 2001 09:10 PM
Again, I will be the jerk for it. We heard it all before Jewel thank you, do we need to get it started again? You do not have to take every comment as a personal attack, you are a big enough women to turn the other cheek. I know you have your own beliefs, and thats fine fine fine. You do not need to defend your beliefs TO ANYONE (except your God). And you are doing just fine with your God. Secondly, and no offense.. you did post so long about the same dang thing, that you are still getting responses from your old posts. The new women who happen along are now reading them all over, and the ones who did not like reading the bible quotes have to have their own say too. Kinda the reason I asked it to stop, so the religion "debate" could be put to bed. Basically, when you post something to a public message board other people read it, and do not always agree... oh and they aren't afraid to say it. Sorry, just calling it like I read it.
The religion has no place here, the insults toward religion have no place here either. Both just look bad bad bad and thats why some prefer to STAY ON TOPIC and talk about the issue. Don't care who ya are or what ya believe... be nice to each other, we are all women working at home so we all have that in common. And keep the foul language out too please Darian, some people don't like that either.
Yessiree we all have valuable opinions.... just some aren't meant for the message board. Hey -- what's the topic again? I got a good question... is phone sex bad for a mom to do? Does it hurt the children?
Well - I can only echo a lot of what McPaige says - there is NO place for foul language here or, really, anywhere that an unsuspecting person might hear or read it. What happened to the wonderful, infinitely expressive vocabulary of English? The question of IF and HOW phone sex could damage a child, by mother doing it from home, continues to concern me. I really don't see how or why it could, as long as mum is careful to do it when the children are asleep or out, and in a private place where she can't be overheard if little people get up in the middle of the night for a drink of water. There is also the aspect that the children should not be heard in the background by the caller, too. If mum has to read "dirty" books to get ideas of what to talk about, then she should keep them away from the children, and she should also be careful to avoid accidentally leaving the phone "logged on". Certainly my company's rules for homeworkers encompass those simple precations, and I am involved in monitoring the operators, so that this sort of thing can be checked on. Of course I have no way of checking how the children are treated - and let's be honest, cases of child abuse are horribly common all over the world and in all sectors of society and employment ... but I think the sort of damage that people here are worried about is a more insidious, "invisible", if you will, damage ... that a child could pick something up from the "aura" of sexuality, or might overhear something worrying or shameful ... Are people perhaps afraid that the children will somehow miss out on the precious innocence of childhood because mother is talking "dirty" on the phone? Sorry, I don't subscribe to that view at all. Missing out on part of their childhood because the bailiffs have been in - now that I can subscribe to! However, there appears to be such a strongly held core of belief that being a phone sex operator at home can harm the children, that surely there must be some sound foundation behind this belief - other than quotations from the bible, which have enormous relevance and importance to christians, but none at all to those of us who are not. I respect the opinions of those who think the entire concept of phone sex goes against their beliefs, but belief is not what we should be discussing (or quarrelling about). Phone sex happens, and women can earn really quite good money at it without ever leaving the safety of their home, without ever having any contact other than telephonic with their customers and without ever revealing the truth about themselves or their situation. It is not as easy as many people think, it is not as wicked as other people think, and it does offer some women an income when perhaps any other way of earning would be difficult or even impossible. Of course this latter fact can make phone sex operators vulnerable to exploitation by unsavoury employers, who obviously exist in this industry - and it is a big industry - as in any other. I know for a fact (they have e-mailed me) that there are many women out there reading this board who would like, for various reasons, to try this type of work, but they have either already had an unfortunate experience with a company that has not paid them, or they have heard of it happening, and don't wish to run the risk. So, there are both "pros" and "cons" to being a phone sex operator but - as McPaige asks, and I ask again - HOW DOES IT HARM THE CHILDREN?
posted July 23, 2001 01:54 PM
"Are there jobs a work-at-home mom just shouldn't do? If a WAHM is getting paid for phone sex while the kids are in school, is she harming anyone? Is she cheating on her husband?
What do you think?"
This was the original question...is was not JUST does it harm children, but ANYONE, and is she cheating, and is it right for her to do it?
That's why we've been going in all the different directions...
posted July 24, 2001 04:45 AM
Thanks for the clarification. It's a pity we haven't had any responses, so I am going to respond to myself - and to prism. Is she harming anyone? Is she cheating on her husband? Is it right for her to do it? Well, clearly, if she is doing either of the first two things, then it is not right for her to do it. If a mother does phone sex and she doesn’t even tell her husband, then I would consider it a form of deception, in the sense that keeping details of the work she does from him is deceiving him. He is not a child, after all, and should not need to be protected from such a thing. But unless she is getting some form of sexual pleasure from the callers, or sharing intimate secrets, then she isn’t cheating on her husband. Many phone actresses even read from a script or improvise around a script, they are so far off any form of involvement during the calls! Harming anyone? Well, I think we have hammered this one out fairly well – using the analogy of a bartender serving alcohol as being in the narrowest sense, someone who enables alcoholics and drunkards to harm themselves and others. Even the checkout girl at the supermarket could enable the diabetic to harm themselves by purchasing chocolates and candies. So, I would say – but I am bound to, aren’t I, being who I am? – that as long as the mother is a strong enough personality, the type of work does not clash with any of her beliefs or ethics, she takes precautions against the children ever discovering the details of what is going on, she is honest with her partner, AND she works for a reputable company that considers the confidentiality and security of its employees or contractors, then no harm or deception will be intended or done. Of course it’s not a job for everyone – but what job is?
quote:Originally posted by Prism75: "Are there jobs a work-at-home mom just shouldn't do? If a WAHM is getting paid for phone sex while the kids are in school, is she harming anyone? Is she cheating on her husband?
What do you think?"
This was the original question...is was not JUST does it harm children, but ANYONE, and is she cheating, and is it right for her to do it?
That's why we've been going in all the different directions...
Just thought I'd clarify that.
Oh Prism THANK YOU - THANK YOU because Seena was really going so far off topic that I was getting a little upset. I am glad you let her know, now we can get back to those questions.
posted July 24, 2001 09:31 AM
I hope that was not a sarcastic remark...
I wasn't trying to say that Seena was way off topic, but just that there had been more than one question originally asked, which is why a lot of people were talking about phone sex as being cheating on a spouse, or about it being wrong for a mom to do. Seena was sticking to the topic, I just wanted to add that there was more to the question, that's all.
Geez, I don't even try to attack, and I get jumped...
posted July 24, 2001 09:53 AM
I don't even remember if I actually ansered these questions, or since I first posted a year after they were asked, I just replyed to other peoples' posts. So, I'll answer them now.
I do think it's wrong for a mom to work as a phone sex operator, just as I think it's wrong for anyone to do so. I guess the reason why is because it's specifically a place where a man can go to get a sexual pleasure other than his wife. (I don't think sex before marriage is right, and so I don't apply this to single men. They shouldn't be doing it, either.) If the phone sex operator is simply giving the man advice, or listening to him, then this would not be wrong, but then why don't they work for a counseling agency? Or why do they have a phone sex line to begin with? I'd venture to say that there are a number of men who DO want the sexual pleasure, otherwise they would change the name and simply offer an open ear.
I think she's cheating on her spouse since she is giving pleasure to someone else. It may not be in the form of a physical touch, but it's still erotic and I don't think any fantasy outside of mariage is right.
And lastly, is she hurting anyone? Maybe not directly, and maybe not in the obvious. To me, I think it's more of a behind the scenes pain, just like anything wrong. For example, you may see two peole before you, both old and healthy and happy. One smokes, the other doesn't. Does that mean that the smoke didn't hurt the one person? Not necessarily, and maybe it won't even kill him. But if you could look into his lungs, you'd see the black, and you never know if his smoking maybe caused his children to think smoking is okay, so they smoke, too, but they aren't so lucky and end up getting lung cancer. Etc.
In my mind, it's the same thing. No one sees the wrongs things I do, but that doesn't mean they don't affect me or others around me. I think a child very well could be affected by a mom who works in the phone sex industry. It could be as small as (in my mind) that they don't think sex outside of marriage is wrong, or it could lead to bigger things such as, "If that's okay, then why can't I touch for money? Or offer myself in other ways?"
I'm not imlying that all children, or any children, of phone sex operators will become sex offenders, so please don't think that. They may become bright, healthy, confident people. Or they may not. My kids may someday become bright, healthy, confident people, or they may not. Ultimately, they have their own choices, too.
So for me, it's more of an underlying wrong than an obvious wrong. I think that way about pornography, swearing, and many other things, not just phone sex. So, my view will be very conservative.
I hope I have answered the questions without greatly offending, and since you already know the reason behind what I think, I won't bother you again. In fact, I've decided to sort of "shake the dust off my feet" on this one, and walk away for the time being.
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posted July 12, 2001 11:55 AM
We had already read all the Christian viewpoints, so we wanted others as well. In other words if I was to post quotes from the Koran here or some other book I FELT was the TRUE word... it "might" offend you. I wouldn't want to offend you with religion or foul language either. I would never nitpick at the way a person lives their life, chooses their work, or how they raise their children. It just isn't a nice way to interact with others. I am sure you agree.
