WAHM Forums

I am really looking into presenting the candles to a few small gift shops/family stores in town.

How do you guys approach this?

Do you give them a letter with information? Is there a contract or anything? Do you just sell the candles to them at a discounted price and then they sell it to whatever price they see fit?

I recently re-read the policies, and asked Charlie about it. We're actually not allowed to sell to stores. We can however, set up displays in "service" related businesses such as hair salons and massage studios, ect... it needs to be a service business. Our products are not suppose to be in a retail store sold on shelves, because that could hurt distributors in the long run big picture.

Hope that helps.
~Kristine http://www.wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif

Oh, that is good to know. So, we are not allowed to consign or sell in stores. I have several "independent" stores that purchase from me and then resell.
What about the literature they give us in the back office? They will need to remove that.
I suppose the best option would be to have them sign up as an associate.

BTW...there is an entire store in Myrtle Beach that just sells Mia Bella. If you are the distributor I would think that would be ok. Kristine, do you know the answer to that?

Jennie,

Do you know the name of the store in Myrtle Beach? We go every year and I would love to stop in there:)

Terri

BTW...there is an entire store in Myrtle Beach that just sells Mia Bella. If you are the distributor I would think that would be ok. Kristine, do you know the answer to that?


Charlie said that they are not to be sold on a "store" shelf at all because although someone might feel they are getting benefits to their business by doing it... they really aren't and it would hurt any distributor's business in the long run (including the one selling it to the store).

However a display CAN be set up in a "Service Related" business such as a hair salon or massage studio but it needs to be accompanied by as sign that states something to the effect that these products are being offered by an Independent distributor with the distributor's info. Also, we are not to knowingly sell to someone who's NOT a distributor that we know will be selling our products on a store shelf.

The exact wording of the sign that MUST be included with the display in a "Service Related" business only, is shown in the policies. You can read the policies at your company provided website.

Here is Charlie's reply to me on my question to him regarding "Retail Stores":

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

The 2nd biggest concern I received from the field is that of retail stores.

In the years since Ive been speaking with distributors ive told them consistantly that we dont allow our products sold on shelves in stores. That is no different than what the current policy says with the exception of some other areas of distinction on how a store owner should present the products.

In the yrs since Ive been speaking with distributors ive told them consistantly that placing our products (or any mlm product) in the open market such as a store site is not good for the long term of your business for two very distinct reasons.

1. PERCEPTION OF SATURATION! The biggest opponent that you will ever face as a recruiter is the perception of saturation. Although saturation in a direct selling business has never happened, almost all major mlm companies have experienced this concern by the public. A store opens up your product name to the masses in such a way that is not good for YOU when attempting to build a downline organization for long term residual income.

Lets say that currently you had 10 stores in your downline in 10 cities and you are recieving commssion from their sales. Those stores may seem like a great idea, but they are simply a short term bandaid for your business. The damage they can do in your area is much bigger. Example. lets say you could recruit 100 women who want to do home parties in your city. (where you have ONE store selling 20 candles per month)

But those 100 women back off from Scent-Sations because they dont want to compete with a store. After all , why would their friends want to wait for their produts to arrive when they can walk over the the local store and buy the same products.

There is a 2nd reason why MLM does not promote or allow stores:

Stores are in business to make money for the store and its owners. They deal with lots of overhead. The usually deal with business in a completely different way than an mlm distriburtor deals with business (credit card on file, auto ship, contract with policies). Lets say that those 10 stores we referred to previously are selling your products for 2 yrs. dealing with all the "hassles" that the mlm company puts them thru because they cant get the product any other way.

But lets say 2 yrs from now, some national company makes an all natural candle that looks similar to Mia Bellas. But they focus on the retail market. The sales rep shows up at your store and shows the owners how they can order thru invoices and not have to deal w an auto ship program nor sign a contract for policies. The store will probably go over to that line, there by causing you to lose income and also to lose face in that area where people will think that Mia Bellas failed because the stores dumped them for this other "better" product.

I knew a distributor, Russ Karlen who made this mistake very early on in his career. Luckily for him his upline confronted him and told him he was working the MLM business entirely wrong. His upline explained what Ive just explained above and Russ felt it made sense, He immediately stopped what was earning him around $4000 per month and focused entirely on entrepreneurs who wanted to build a home based mlm business.

Within 2 more years Russ replaced his $4000 monthly income with a $240,000 monthly income! (this is fact, not a story....Russ showed us his check growth...in fact, I think Bobby still keeps a copy!)

Russ had been earning over $200,000 per month for almost 20 yrs now....imagine if he stuck with his original plan to focus on stores!!!!

</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=ltr>Hope that helps. Have a great day! smileys/smiley1.gif



~Kristine ♥

Jennie,


I'm not seeing a document in the back office that promotes selling to retail stores to re-sell. WhichDocs are you referring to that need to be removed? The only thing I see like that is the "Simmer Pot" agreement, but it's designed more for the "Service Related" business like hair salons that we are allowed to set up displays at, so that's fine to stay there. Is there another that I'm missing?
((hugs))
~Kristine

Oh... also, on a service related business that we ARE allowed to set up a display at, provided that the required sign is posted near our dispaly, as outlined in the policies.... there can be NO sign on the outside of the business thatpromoting that our candles are in there. The people who patronize the "service related" business (such as hair salon or massage studio) would have exposure to our display, but it can not be advertised that it's in there in any way on the outside of the business.

Again, Hope that helps

~Kristine ♥

That makes sense. I think about Watkins. I love their vanilla. Now I can buy it in the spice aisle of Wal-mart. Why would I call a rep and have to pay shipping when I'm at Wal-mart once a week anyway? I can definitely see where that would hurt the business model.

That makes sense. I think about Watkins. I love their vanilla. Now I can buy it in the spice aisle of Wal-mart. Why would I call a rep and have to pay shipping when I'm at Wal-mart once a week anyway? I can definitely see where that would hurt the business model.

Definitely!and that needs to be avoided at all cost in the "direct selling" industry.

It makes perfect sense.Our company is very fair with their rules, and I firmly believe that every rule that they make is with the distributor's best interest in mind. While this rule may initially upset some who have been doing it without realizing it was against policy, because now that they do know, they have to pull their product from stores in order to be in compliance... in the long run, it is best for every distributor... themselves included.

I dont see how this has hurt Watkins business model.Yes I have seen the product in stores,but its not like they carry the entire line.JMO.

Greetings!

I wanted to share something to show how selling in stores can indeed have an effect on the independent distributor.

I had a local gal who joined my team in 2005, she had a local customer who bought 6 jars per month from her. The localteam memberleft the company due to personal issues, but referred the customer to me. So I then met her once a month and she purchased 6 jar candles. We continued this for over a year!

Then, one month she called and placed her order, then she did not meet me at our designated place and time for payment/delivery.

I called her and did not get a response, finally, after several calls, she answered and told me that she was embarassed to tell me she found a local hair salon that was selling candles and went there instead.

So I instantly lost my customer due to a local salon that was selling the candles.

Over a year of consistant sales then *poof*!

Just wanted to sharea story from the other side. I personally never have sold candles in a retail/service setting... http://www.wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif

Kristine,
Some where I had gotten a form called a "Retial Sales Proposal" that broke down 3 different ways that retail stores could sell MB. I apologize...it may not have come from the back office.
Thank goodness I only had one store that wanted them. How do we control what people do with them if they buy them in bulk (I have not had this happen, but could see if happening). What if the purchaser puts their own label on it?
This could get very tricky.
One more reason why I am glad I have my OWN vendor spot!

Thanks ladies, this is good stuff to know. I guess I didn't think about the results in the end.

PS. Only 30% of Watkins Products can be purchased in retail stores...the other 70% is only available through catalog sales.

Sorry I mentioned Watkins.... It just came up in my head when I was reading this. No need to be offended anyone. I love Watkins!

Terri---I do not remember the name of the store but it is at Barefoot Landing. I was blown away when I walked in...I said to her "I bet the person who enrolled you is very happy every month when they get their check", she said "yes they are".

Oh, no offense taken. I am a complete Watkins nut!!

Im sorry if I came across as snippy lol...I love Watkins as well.smileys/smiley1.gif
Edited by: nattiesmother

If this is the case, I suppose everyone should look at their personal websites and remove the terms "gift shops", "boutiques", "retail stores", etc when referring to ways to retail our products. Those terms may be misleading to anyone considering joining. I have also noticed that there are several references made to having products in stores in the monthly newsletters.

That's very true. I did notice that it is on the "CandleBizFromHome" system site, which I currently use while the system that I'm having built for my team, finishes being built. No reference to retailing in stores will be on my team system site, but I can't control the content on the site that I currently have, since it's not my system. Maybe someone on the systemshould ask Stephanie to have the refernce to "Retailing in Stores" taken off of the "CandleBizFromHome" system sites.

I would also recommend that others take it off of their personal sites as well if they do have it on there, because you're right... it is misleading and gives the wrong impression. We're allowed to set up displays in "SERVICE related" businesses like hair salons, massage studios... even a floristwould fit the bill since they are in the "service" of creating floral arrangements to customer specifications made to order, ect... but they can not be put on a shelf in a retail establishment, just a "service" establishment with a display, and the sign with approved wording as shown in the policies, MUST accompany the display.

I got it straight from Charlie, so reference to selling in stores should be removed from websites... I agree.

~Kristine

I hadn't noticed that in the newsletter. Are you sure it wasn't in reference to a home show, fair or expo... or a display in a "service related" business? I don't remember seeing a story on retailing in an actual store in the newsletter. I'll ask Charlie about it though if you point me in the right direction for the story.

~Kristine

So, we can put in a store (service related store) and they can sell for the full price and keep a cut. I am not quite sure what the benefit to the store owner would be any other way.

No, I didn't understand it that way. The display in the "service related" store must be accompanied by the sign stating that these products are offered by an "Independent Distributor" with the distributor's info included, as it shows in the policies the exact wording the sign must include.

If the store owner wanted to sell, and keep a cut, they would HAVE to be a distributor themself and put that sign there next to their display with their distributor info on it. If they are NOT a distributor themself, and are allowing YOU to set up your dispaly there... you could offer them the simmer pot agreement as their benefit. That you will supply them with a simmer pot, and Mia Melts for free for them to use in their business, as long as they allow you to put your display up, and you continue to get leads from there, ect... You could also offer them a discount on personal orders as well if you wanted. The sign as outlined in the policies, with distributor info needs to be near the display, so unless they are a distributor then THEM selling the products for profit won't work.

You can clarify it yourself with Charlie. That is what I was told. Not meaning to be the bearer of bad news to people doing it. I had just recently had this discussion with Charlie, so when I saw the post, I figured I'd share what I learned about it in our conversation.

((hugs))
~Kristine ♥

Let's just say it's there. I am NOT looking to get anybody in trouble or to cause anyone to lose business. I think it's a shame that from the looks of things, there are a lot of distributors that do not understand that doing this is against policy. There are references to this issue in the forum in the back office explaining the "right" way to do it. Some sites use the term "wholesale" meaning they sell large quantities to individuals at a discounted price. Where does that fit into the policy?

I think this is a great thread. Sometimes info is not given to the new team members (as it should by their enroller) or it is misunderstood.

Boy, I know alot of people that are doing this and telling their team members that it is ok. I, personally am glad to see this come out. Being a vendor, I would not want someone to say that they got a candle right down the street at XYZ store.
But, I would love them to say that they got a candle at XYZ and it had my lable on it and they came right back to me for a reorder!

I sometimes sell a large quantity to a business at a discounted price, but it is for the purpose of "corporate gift giving". Many businesses buy gifts for employees or for their vendors, and our candles are a great option for that.

Generally, when someone is placing a large order they tell you why.

For example... "I'm getting married soon, and wanted to include these in my centerpiece so I'm going to need 50 jar candles, one for each table" or whatever the reason is... when an individual orders a lot, they normally volunteer the reason. "I'm getting some Christmas shopping done, so I need a dozen jars." If they tell you that they are buyingto re-sell it in their store, then it's your job to tell them that it's not allowed in order to remain within compliance.

Hope that helps.

From what I have seen, there are many distributors that were NOT aware of this policy. I have seen it addressed as "OK" as far back as 3 or 4 years. IMO, what is the difference between a "service related" store &amp; any other store? Most of the stores in my city carry other major brands or their own brand. Circle E,Colonial, and Tyler candles are commonplace in area stores.

I would like to make sure that my team is aware of this. Could someone point me to where I can find this information, so I can share with them?
Thanks

A "service related" business is focused on service, NOT retail... so our products don't end up being stuck on a shelf to be sold. We are allowed to set up a "display" in a service related busienss, accompanied by the sign outlined in the policies that must accompany the display. The products aren't physically sold there, but rather a display of "smell and sell" where they can contact the distributor to order. If the owner of the establishment, IS a distributor... her display would be set up the same way, but since she herself IS a distributor then she would have the benefit of being able to sell on the spot since she is right there.


I hope that clarifies a little better, what I gathered about it from Charlie and from reading the policies.
Have a great day.

So, we could have our own store that carries Mia Bella as long as we are the distributor. The lady in Myrtle Beach is cleaning up.

No, it can not be sold in ANY store. A display can be set up in a "service related" business.... NO stores. The lady in Myrtle Beach is in violation of the policies.

I would like to make sure that my team is aware of this. Could someone point me to where I can find this information, so I can share with them?
Thanks


It can be found in the company policies, which can be found at your company provided website.

Hope that helps. http://www.wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif
~Kristine ♥

I have looked there but must be looking in the wrong place. Sorry, I'll keep searching. Thanks again!

Look on the homepage, under the animated flash thing... you'll see a sentence that has a few links in it. One says read the policies, and the word "policies" is a link to the policies, and "terms and conditions" is a link to the terms &amp; conditions. I forget which one I saw it in, but it's always good to read both. If I'm remembering corectly, it was in one of the links on the policy page.

Here's the link to the policy page on my site:
http://www.bellagourmet.scent-team.com/policiesTOC.html

Here's the link to the "Terms of Service" on my site:
http://www.bellagourmet.scent-team.com/termsandconditions.php (http://www.bellagourmet.scent-team.com/termsandconditions.php)

Thank You!

The link where I had read it, was in the updated policies...

the link was sent to all distributors a week or 2 ago in a corporate messege. They are effective March 1st. It doesn't appear that the update is on our sites yet.

Charlie said the policies are all the same as they always have been, but are written better so there is less room for interpretation.

I clicked through to read what is on our sites right now, and it appears that it is the older ones still there right now.

Okay... I found the link in my email. It was in the same message from the company with the Superbowl specials. Here's the C&amp;P of the part of the email with the policy update link that is to be effective March 1st:


Important Company Update!


We've been hard at work re-vamping from beginning to end our Policies and Procedures. They have been sorely in need of updating, and after much research, writing, re-writing, meetings, and more, the updated Policies and Procedures are now completed.


These new Policies and Procedures will go into effect Sunday March 1, 2009. Please review them at your earliest convenienceonline anytime on or after today, Thursday January 29, 2009.


The link is currently online on our web site at:
http://www.scent-team.com/updated_policy.html

Letters M and N of the "Upadated Policies" link, relate to this topic.

After re-reading letter M again, it appears that we can have a display in a retail store but it can NOT be sold there, with a sign at the display that states:
"Thank you for your interest. As a direct selling company, Scent-Sations, Inc. products are distributed and sold by Independent Distributors and not in retail stores. Please contact (Distributor's Name) at (Distributor's Contact Information) in order to purchase your Scent-Sations, Inc. products."


Letter "N" states the following:




Service Establishments: A Distributor may conduct Distributor Business through Service-related Establishments, except that no Product banners or other Sales Tools may be displayed to the general public in a manner that would attract the public into the Service-related Establishment. The Company has sole discretion in determining whether an establishment is a service-related establishment and a proper place for the sale of Products.

After re-reading again, it appears that we can sell through a "service related" business such as a hair salon, massage studio, ect... without the sign. So selling to a "service related" business to re-sellappears to beokay, but NOT selling to a retail type of business. It has to be a "service" type of business in order to sell to for resale. In a retail store we can have ONLY have the display with a sign to contact the distrubutor as stated in letter M.


Alrighty... that should clear up all of our confusion, LOL.

Have a great night everyone. http://www.wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif

((hugs))
~Kristine ♥
Edited by: kcarpenter

So it appears that this is a new policy, as I could not find any reference to this issue in the "un updated policies"?

Charlie said that it has always been the policy. Whenever anyone asked if we can sell in retail stores, his answer was "no our products can't be sold on shelves." The policy is the same, just written better so that there is no confusion on things that they got a lot of questions for, ect... it has been needing updating in writing so that everything is clear in black and white, although the policy is the same.

Hope that helps. It really is for our benefit. Every decision they make is with what is best for the company AND the distributor's. They are very fair with the rules, in my opinion.

Have a great night! http://www.wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif
~Kristine

I'm not disputing whether they are fair or not. My point was simply that a lot of information is out there that could be misleading and unclear. It doesn't appear to have been covered in writing until now. No harm, no foul. Thanks for clearing it up.

I didn't mean to imply that you didn't think it was fair at all, so I appologize profusely if you took it that way. Just that I thought it was fair, and agree that it's best for everyone in the long term big picture... I didn't mean that you didn't. Again, sorry if it appeared that way. It was not my intention.


Have a great night! http://www.wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif
~Kristine ♥

No worries. I know what you meant!

I really dont see what the difference is in the types of stores. What is the difference between it being sold in a salon and it being soldin a store that sells collectibles and such.


P.S. I would thing flea markets are ok.
Edited by: FlickerScents

If allowed to be sold in a retail setting, where their focus is RETAILING products (no services offered), then how long before you started seeing our candles sold on shelves in grocerie stores, and walmarts, ect... In a retail setting, it's just on a shelf for anyone to walk in and buy and would be difficult for the company to draw the line to control it from reaching big stores.

In a service business, they are not retail focused, thay are service focused, and products that "service businesses" sell, are sold in a "consultive selling" technique... so they'd be set up and sold in a special and personal way... "distributor style".

A salon or massage place might have a simmer pot going for their clients to enjoy while they are receiving their service ( a nice relaxing scent goes hand in hand with these types of establishments and many of these types of businesses do like to create a nice relaxing atmosphere using scents for their clients to enjoy). The client would most probably ask what that amazing aroma is at some point during the service, and they would tell them about it... then point them in the direction of the display after the service for some "Smell and Sell". In a service related business, the products are more apt to be sold in a "distributor style" like we do every day, rather than just sticking them on a shelf with every other product under the sun that the particular "Retail" business might carry.

That's my take onhow I seethe difference between the two.

Sorry Ladies! I didn't realize this would become such a heated discussion! I think it's a good thing I got this cleared up before I became in violation.

That's a good point but just for the fun of it, here's another way to look at it
First off, most retail stores are not going to pay anywhere close to our prices to carry the products on their shelves. In order for the store to make enough profit, the distributor would have to really cut their price which would in turn cut the distributor's profit. As far as seeing our candles in the grocery stores or Wal-Mart, how would that happen? The stores would have had to get the inventory from a distributor. Why would a distributor sell a product at a loss? This is why you don't see name brand candles in chain stores. Most "high end" gift shops or "boutiques" carry a very limited selection of any one product. So you give the shop owner a free candle to burn in their store &amp; customers ask what that wonderful smell is and they direct them to the display.
I can see how selling in a retail store might be a problem in a small community, but in a large city having them in a few stores isn't going to replace being a distributor. It's just another way to get our products out there.
I approached a lady who owns 5 flower shops, when I first started &amp; she turned me down flat. Her reason was she would be competing against herself. If given a choice, a lot of people would chose a candle over a flower that was going to die. I thought that was pretty funny.

This was far from being a heated discussion. I'm glad you asked, too. Gave us all a chance to learn something!smileys/smiley1.gif

Well, I will not have to worry about any of this since thank goodness I do not have in any retail stores. Just a booth at my little old vendor mart. This has been a great topic, and no one should feel like they started a heated discussion. We are a group of intelligent, free spirited, business women...all opinions are appreciated. We always learn from each other.
Good Night and Happy Candle Dreams ;)

Oh wow, this is going to be news to some people. There's a huge section on our team training website about how to go about getting retail merchants to sign on as COTM or associates and also how to do consignment. There are documents to download, too, to help us do all this, like a comparison of their profits if they buy candles from us, become Associates or do COTM.

I think that if they really don't want this done, they need to really make a concerted effort to let people know, because this information on our team site is coming from one of the top people in the company.

No wonder people are confused!! smileys/smiley5.gif

Have a great week, all.

Debbie

That was my point.... A LOT of people thought this was allowed. I found out by accident!

wow... I haven't seen any documents like that promoting how to retail in actual retail stores, so they couldn't have come from the company.

Someone must have misunderstood something along the way and created materials to train their team on it? That's all I can figure. I'm sure it was non intentional and completely innocent.

It's good that the policies have been re-done now to make everything crystal clear so that people won't continue to unknowingly break policy, and train their team to do the same. Like the noticesaid, it was long overdue, and sorely needing attention. Charlie did say that these are the same policies... just written better to be more clear, and to address things that he got a lot of questions on so they are in there as well... so if someone had asked him prior to this, if selling in a retail store was okay, he would consistently say no.The written policies certainly needed updating to make everything clear for people who didn't ask him about it first, and just assumed they could.

Being a relatively new company still has it's benefits, but will also have the little things like this that need a little working out along the way, they can't predict ahead of time what will come up... so if something is consistently asked, then they know that they now need to address it in writing to be clear, which is what they have now done.

I've got to run... dinner's ready.

Have a great night everyone. http://www.wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif
~Kristine ♥

Someone must have misunderstood something along the way and
created materials to train their team on it? That's all I can figure.
I'm sure it was non intentional and completely innocent.</font>

Yes, I'm sure of that ... I certainly never meant to imply otherwise. I'm just concerned now, because I imagine that our site isn't the only one to have information about this method of selling.

Debbie

I'm guessing that it just got all confused because we areallowed to sell through a "SERVICE" related type of business (hair salon, massage studio), that's not primarily retail focused, but rather their primary focus is on their services... so the confusion probably came from that.

I didn't think you implied anything, so no worries.

Have a great night. http://www.wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif
~Kristine ♥

I'm sure that now that the new policies are out, and clear in writing on this issue...people will make the neccessary changes that they need to, so I'm sure the wrong info won't remain on sites for much longer. I wouldn't be overly worried about it.

Yeah...I had those same documents to show a potentional store owner. It is broken down into three sections. Consigning, Associate and Purchasing right from the distributor at a reduced cost.
I have never used it, but it was available in our team site.
I will bring it to the attention of the team owner.

Yep, there is all kinds of information concerning retailing in stores and on consignment. Many of the Yahoo Groups as well as on Team Sites. Hard to believe so many distributors didn't know. Some of these distributors have been with the company for several years.

Yep, there is all kinds of information concerning retailing in stores and on consignment. Many of the Yahoo Groups as well as on Team Sites. Hard to believe so many distributors didn't know. Some of these distributors have been with the company for several years.


That is strange. It must have just been confusion stemming from being allowed to sell in service related businesses, would be my guess. Not sure.

I thought it was allowed before too, but only because I saw people here talking about it, that's why I asked Charlie when I saw it in the policies that we can'tdo it,so that I was clear on it. I had a team member whohad recentlyasked so I wanted to ask him about it after reading that, to be sure that I understood correctly so that I could share correct info with my team member on it.

That's whenhe explained to me that the policy hasn't changed, we never could sell on a retail biz shelf, and that his answer has consistently been no to that question when asked but it has just been made more clear in writing now with the policy update. I really think that it was just confusion because we CAN sell in a service related business, so people got confused on it... it was a little fuzzy area, which is perfectly understandable. At leastit's all cleared up now. http://www.wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif

~Kristine ♥