WAHM Forums

Hi everyone. I just received direct confirmation from Arbonne Compliance that we SHOULD NOT be using the Re9 sets to do drop off's. We should ONLY be using the sample packs.


I know there has been some discussion on this in recent months. I have been trained in my Nation to use sample packs, but there has been a lot of grumbling going on because when we did do the full sets, people seemed to have better success.


So, I took it upon myself to ask Arbonne directly. I can post the exact correspondence if you would like, but in a nut shell- we should not be repackaging any products (RE9 night creme in pots, or any other items) and we should be using sample packs only for people to try.


Sorry if I have ruined your day.

Yeah, could you post the exact correspondence so I can email it to my upline/downline. Thanks.

I saw your posts on the Yahoo board (I am assuming that was you). I am wondering if they are just recommending that we don't use the full sets or if it is actually againt their policy. The Arbonne woman seemed pretty vague in her response....

Isn't that weird being Rita Davenport has done Learn and Burns with people about the Puppy Dog/REsults approach. I wonder why know one has said anything before. I don't see why you can not still use it as well as the night cream is put into individual containers.If you can I would also like copy of the exact correspondence for my upline and downline

I believe that the Arbonne woman said that putting the night creme into individual containers is actually considered "re-packaging." I think this is another one of those examples where not everyone is on the same page at Arbonne as far as if this is okay or not. I have definitely listened to the Learn N Burns from Rita and others who promote this and my VP promotes this as well. I think I am going to ask others about the repackaging thing. It seems like it would only be considered repackaging if you were actually selling it that way....but we aren't.


Maybe Arbonne would consider making the Night Creme into a pump so we wouldn't have this problem. Or maybe they could make samples of the Night Creme only that we could include with the full set...?

I will post the correspondence. My NVP came back from NVP training in California back in October. As soon as she got back she had a conference call with all of us and said that Stian Morck(Petter's brother) is the head of compliance and he was very clear that we should only be using sample packs. So she immediately began training us on doing REsults with sample packs.


Cindi- I specifically asked the girl if we could use the sets or if we should be using the samples only and she said samples only.


I think her response is very clear. Don't shoot the messenger.





My correspondence is below: (in two parts)

HiJennifer, thank you for contacting Arbonne Intl’ Policy and Compliance Department regarding your inquiry.This would fall under re-packaging which is a violation. I have attached the corresponding section of the 2006 Policies and Procedures Manual for your reference.
3.12. Re-packaging Arbonne Product
"Independent Consultants shall not re-package, re-label, or tamper in any way with any product packaging."
Should you have questions or require further assistance, please contact me at the information provided below.
Thank you,
Allison Giffin
Arbonne International
Support Coordinator || Policy Compliance Support Team
Phone: 1-800-ARBONNE Ext: 760
Fax: 949-855-3077
agiffin@arbonne.com or policycompliance@arbonne.com


Please feel free to share your feed back by submitting an on-line survey at the following link.
&lt;<A>http://www.arbonne.com/shop_online/survey/store_survey1.asp</A>&gt;
-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV =OutlookMessageer dir=ltr align=left>Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 7:58 PM
To: Arbonne Policy Compliance
Subject: Compliance Question


<TABLE id=INCREDIMAINTABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%">
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<TD id=INCREDITEXTREGION style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" width="100%">
Good evening:

I am currently doing the REsults approach with sample packs, as recommended by my upline. We do not use the full sets. I am hearing a lot of other consultants are using the full sets, putting night creme into smaller containers and passing the sets around. Is this in compliance with the guidelines? I cannot find any information that says specifically to not use the sets or to specifically use the samples. If there is anything specific, can you please tell me where to locate the information?

Fortunately, my upline is very concerned with contamination of products and has trained us to use the samples only.After all, that is what they are for. I just don't want my downline to get confused by other teams doing it with the full sets.

Can you please clarify this for me so that I know what is right and what is wrong for sure?

Thank you in advance.
________________________________________

Hi Jennifer:

Yes, you should use the sample packs and not the full sets.

Thank you,
Allison Giffin
Arbonne International
Support Coordinator || Policy Compliance Support Team
Phone: 1-800-ARBONNE Ext: 760
Fax: 949-855-3077
agiffin@arbonne.com (http://by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000005&amp;a=645518b6a8f7f0395b2cb2c2a52381c4652 c2992a0ad0cc61d3de2cbbb9201fe&amp;mailto=1&amp;to=agiffin@ arbonne.com&amp;msg=1E820D6F-EB4F-41B7-916D-95419F4AA1BA&amp;start=0&amp;len=6513&amp;src=&amp;type=x) or policycompliance@arbonne.com (http://by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000005&amp;a=645518b6a8f7f0395b2cb2c2a52381c4652 c2992a0ad0cc61d3de2cbbb9201fe&amp;mailto=1&amp;to=policyco mpliance@arbonne.com&amp;msg=1E820D6F-EB4F-41B7-916D-95419F4AA1BA&amp;start=0&amp;len=6513&amp;src=&amp;type=x)

Please feel free to share your feed back by submitting an
on-line survey at the following link.
&lt;<A>http://www.arbonne.com/shop_online/survey/store_survey1.asp</A>&gt;




-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:39 AM
To: Allison Giffin
Subject: RE: Compliance Question


Hi Allison:

Thanks for your quick response. So, is it safe to say that we
should not be
doing the REsults approach with the full sets? I just want to
be sure that
my entire downline is clear on this. I have been training them
to use the
samples, but they have been moaning and groaning because other
Nations are
using the full sets still.

Thanks,
Jennifer
</TD></TR></T></TABLE></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, until it is officially a policy change, I will continue doing what works best for mesmileys/smiley2.gif. I use both the sets and samples. I give samples to people I don't know, and the set to people I am comfortable w/ and who are comfortable w/ using a set that has been sampled by someone else.

From the RESULTS portion of the website.





"Arbonne recommends offering prospects the NutriMinC<SUP>®</SUP> RE<SUP>9</SUP> System Sample Pack (Business Aid #2250) for sampling the products. Offer the REvolution in Anti-Aging Skin Care Set (Item #385) along with the new Usage Card (downloadable below), at the same time, letting the prospect know that "Once you sample these products, I know you're going to want your own set. Hold on to this one in case you decide to buy." Let them know when you'll be contacting them to see what they think of the products."

Hi Jennifer~


Thanks for your posts. I have read the RESULTS page and have read the exact same thing that you have posted up here. I guess I am wondering this: is it considered a "recommendation" or a "policy" to use the sample packs...? If it is a policy, that is fine....in all honesty, I think I have only used the REsults approach twice so it isn't a big deal to change the way I have done it.


Thanks so much for wanting us all to be doing what we should! I know that Arbonne always has our best in view!

Isn't that weird being Rita Davenport has done Learn and Burns with people about the Puppy Dog/REsults approach. I wonder why know one has said anything before. I don't see why you can not still use it as well as the night cream is put into individual containers.If you can I would also like copy of the exact correspondence for my upline and downline


By putting the night cream into individual containers you are "tampering" with the product.

It seems like the main issue is with the night creme...since all the other products use pumps we don't have to worry about contamination. Arbonne should simple start selling samples of just the night creme individually. That way we could use the full size set of all the products and then throw in a sample pack of the night creme for our REsults sets.


I don't know about you all, but I've personally used a sample pack (when all of my full-size sets were out) and it was a huge pain, very messy and I wouldn't have purchased anything if that's the way it would have been presented to me initailly.


LisaMichelle

It seems like the main issue is with the night creme...since all the other products use pumps we don't have to worry about contamination. Arbonne should simple start selling samples of just the night creme individually. That way we could use the full size set of all the products and then throw in a sample pack of the night creme for our REsults sets.


I don't know about you all, but I've personally used a sample pack (when all of my full-size sets were out) and it was a huge pain, very messy and I wouldn't have purchased anything if that's the way it would have been presented to me initailly.


LisaMichelle





So you are saying that a person can't unscrew the top and stick their finger in one of the products? What about kids? Pets...what if a dog licks it or something? I know, I am being a little over the top here- because in most cases these things probably aren't happening. BUT how do weknow for sure? Also, since some of the pumps weren't and still aren't working so great, what is going to prevent the person you dropped a set off to from unscrewing the top to check things out? All of the products can be contaminated, not just the night creme. Once we get the product, we are responsible to get it to the client without being compromised.We are not protected as consultants if we are giving products out that have been "tampered", repackaged, or whatever else.


A consultant in my downlinegave an Re9 set her friend to sample a few months ago. Guess what?!?!?The first thing she asked was had anyone else used the set. AND, guess what else??!?!!Once she foundout it was a sample kit and others used it she REFUSED to take it and toldmy friend that she shouldnot be passing somethinglike that around for people to use. She works forOSHA.IMO, not something to fool around with.


As I said, don't shoot the messenger. If you have a specific question or concern, you should either contact your upline or Arbonne directly.


Edited by: myarbonne

Stian Morck(Petter's brother)


First it is his son.. just had to add that.


My kids have gotten into my Re9 set even though they are pumps.. and if someone touchs the spot where the cream comes out and they have something on their hand it is contaminated. So they are using the eye cream and don't know they have pink eye (just an example) and then you pass it to the next and they get pink eye guess what..


This is for our safty so people don't come after us. If we follow the company and their system the company will protect us if anything does happen..


Just my two cents.. talk to your upline.


Kim

Thanks Kim.

Doesn't the Night Cream come with a spatula?

Yikes...nevermind, I'll do what my upline says and you do what your's says.


Have a nice day!


LisaMichelle

Before we go upsetting each other. Lets all just contact our uplines and see what to do from now on. It is obvious that many of us have been doing the kits. Myself being one of them. Although my upline is on there way to Arizona to meet with our ENVP. I will leave them a message. Thank you Jennifer for bringing it to our attention.


Have a good night everyone.

Sounds great. We do the Get Paid to shop and go by what my ENVP (and my RVP for that) Thea says. Contact your NVP and see what they say. Good luck everyone.. I hope no one was mad.. I was just trying to help as I am sure you all were.


Kim

There is definetly no reason for anyone to get upset. I'm not! smileys/smiley2.gif I just talked w/ my upline the other day about this and kinda had a laugh over the idea that using full-size sets for sampling is kinda like the "red headed step child" in arbonne. Many are still doing it and not wanting to accept the "recommendation," or discuss it. I just sponsored 2 new bb's who purchased the "results" set. Both were introduced to the RE9 by samples, and still loved it. I just made sure they knew exactly how to use it, and to pick it w/ a safetly pin. The one got almost 1 weeks use out of it. I am encouraging them to make sure their prospects use the samples w/ the set, and if they want to purchase, then they can open the new boxes and use that set as theirs. Then they will just replace it. But, for me, I have 2 "puppies" that have already been used. I think this is where the issue is. Lots and lots of consulants have used sets sitting around, and to just stop and start using samples is money down the drain. So, for me, I see no harm in allowing my friends and people I have come to know well to sample these sets. They know that they have been sampled before. As far as all the answers arbonnes home office has given, well, of course they say that. They would never tell us to have people sample used products. So, for me personally, I will stop when it officially becomes policy, which I am sure will eventually happen. This will also end the "big inventory" push for 8-12 RE9s.

Yowzy...my entire business is built on buying sets &amp; handing them out to prospects &amp; then my business builders buying 6 sets, on &amp; on..... Yikes! I think I will pretend I didn't read this thread. (ducking her head behind her monitor)

I pass them out but with a sample pack.. if they open and try the full size then they buy it.. I am still moving Re9 Sets just with samples for safty.. that is why on Arbonnes site you can get Re9 Sets with samples in the ReSults pack.


Kim

I am just bumping this up and I have cut and pasted what Ines posted in her post "Liability Insurance"


"We recently had a thread discussing the Results system and that we shouldn't be using the full sized sets as that compromises the product.


Yesterday I wrote to Arbonne asking about liability insurance and here's their response. It's definitely related to the thread we had (which I can't find right now) so I thought you all might be interested in seeing this (their response to my inquiry).----&gt;

HiInes, thank you for contacting Arbonne Intl’ Policy and Compliance Department regardingliability insurance.First, recognize that we carry product liability insurance through an A rated insurance carrier, and are financially well protected in the unlikely event that a claim were to ever arise.
<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P></O:P>
Arbonne’s policy covers personal injuries that are caused by its products. Therefore, the policy will provide coverage if a consumer is injured by an Arbonne product regardless whether the product was sold to a Client by a Consultant or if it was direct shipped by the Company to the Client. However, there are some limitations that you must be aware of.
<O:P></O:P>
First, Arbonne’s insurance policy will not cover an injury if the product or its packaging has been tampered with. It is therefore important that Consultants NEVER deliver an opened product to a client, and all products must be delivered in their original unaltered packaging. Secondly, Arbonne’s policy will not cover injuries that result from unapproved product claims. Remember, Arbonne’s products are not drugs, so you must never claim that they are effective in the cure, treatment or prevention of diseases, illness or injury, and you must never advise a Client to use Arbonne’s products in lieu of their medication. Finally, Consultants must never advise Clients to apply or consume Arbonne’s products in any fashion that is inconsistent with the product directions. Excessive usage of virtually any product can have adverse consequences, so be careful to follow the dosage and application instructions on the labels.
<O:P></O:P>
In the unlikely event that a Client has an adverse reaction to an Arbonne product, please promptly contact Arbonne’s Customer Service Department at 1-800-Arbonne.
<O:P></O:P>
<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Response to Allergic Reaction Inquiries[/B]
<O:P></O:P>
It would be unusual for someone to have an allergic reaction to Arbonne’s products, but as with any product that is applied to the skin or consumed internally, occasional adverse reactions may occur. If someone has an allergic reaction that you believe is related to an Arbonne product, discontinue using the product immediately and seek medical attention as necessary. Save the unused product and its packaging in a safe place and contact Arbonne’s customer service department at 1-800-ARBONNE.

Should you have questions or require further assistance, please contact me at the information provided below.



Thank you,
Allison Giffin
Arbonne International
Support Coordinator || Policy Compliance Support Team
Phone: 1-800-ARBONNE Ext: 730
Fax: 949-855-3077
agiffin@arbonne.com or policycompliance@arbonne.com "





Thanks Ines for the info!

So by providing an opened product to a person ( RE9 set) we are opening ourself up to a lawsuit. Thats something to think aboutsmileys/smiley5.gif

Those of us who were recruited by the REsults approach and subsequently purchased 6-8-10 RE9 kits ( which our uplines recommended) are now just stuck with the kits. Nobody ever told me to pass out samples with the kits. They just said that the kits were our "employees" and the more we had, the more opportunity for sales. So now that we have these opened, used kits, what is everyone doing with them?smileys/smiley5.gif

Did you buy the Results set? The idea behind the results set is that you get 4 sets with 4 samples, you give the the sample leave the set unopened (I bring the set and show them what they will get, I don't leave it) and then follow up with them in 2-3 days. When you go back the theory is that they should "purchase" the set then. So, one set down 3 to go...and so on.


The best bet though is to talk to your RVP or NVP.

I do the RE9 kits and have been successful with them but do not include the night cream after one use because it was open. All the other products using the pump are fine. It's just like going to the mall and using the sample pumps.

I do the RE9 kits and have been successful with them but do not include the night cream after one use because it was open. All the other products using the pump are fine. It's just like going to the mall and using the sample pumps.





Many people have been successful with this approach, however, it is very clear that this is tampering with the products and we should not be giving used products to people.


The best bet is to contact your upline for support and guidance. It is obvious that each nation is doing their own thing, what they think is "right". What I am saying might not be right, but I am going by what the communication has been from my NVP and the home office to date.


I have a feeling that we are going to see the Home Office start coming down on this issuegoing forward though, so don't be surprised.

I will be surprised.

I can see why Arbonne would not approve of the sets being passed around. You never know what someone could put in it, what their children could put in it, if someone has an infection of some sort and the bacteria got on their fingers when they were pumping out the product, etc. Really, it is not a good idea. I will only be doing samples from now on.

I believe Home Office has already addressed the concerns last year when theyissued their recommendations as found in the internet consultant area, REsults approach. Which is why WE are "personally responsible", as independent consultants, for products &amp; how we represent the company.

I think that sending out acomplete Re9 set inits gold bagwith a sample pack of the Re9 and a sample of the Re9 trasforming lift (since the Re9 set sample doesnt have it in there) is a great way to let them sample the product without compromising the "real set". Since the product is absolutely amazing, it doesnt matter if they are using it from the bottle or the packs they will still get unbelievable results. I do have some sets that have been used, only sending these out with family and close friends who dont have a problem with it. To each her own. do what works for you, but educate yourself on any risks.

Cara I do the same thing-- the people I know personally I give them the choice of using the tester set or sample--people I dont know see the set and use a sample pack


One note - I am a mother of 4 and am very careful about germs- I mean who isnt-- I use alcohol wipes to clean outside of bottles, lids outside and inside, wipe off my instruction card and the inside of the bag..I then take off the actual caps off each product and soak in alcohol- that way there are no germs left on the squirters--

I don't really want to get into this debate, as I don't do this
approach, but I just thought you should know that your method of
sterilization is ineffective. I spent 6 years as a research scientist
and I know of MANY bacteria, yeasts, molds, and viruses that are
resistant to alcohol.





Also, if the inside of the bottle was contaminated, either
inadvertantly or intentionally, cleaning the caps does no good. I
think your method does make things look better, but it does not protect
your clients.





Cheers,


-Beverly

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I don't really want to get into this debate, as I don't do this approach, but I just thought you should know that your method of sterilization is ineffective. I spent 6 years as a research scientist and I know of MANY bacteria, yeasts, molds, and viruses that are resistant to alcohol.

Also, if the inside of the bottle was contaminated, either inadvertantly or intentionally, cleaning the caps does no good. I think your method does make things look better, but it does not protect your clients.

Cheers,
-Beverly <!--
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Plus, keep in mind there is nothing preventing a person to open the containers and sticking their finger inside or scooping some out for their personal use. Not saying that this happens, but it may. Why take the chance.


I know, I sound like I am beating a dead horse.

Hey guys, I know I am bringing up an old topic here, but last month I
went to a huge training/mercedes presentation and heard several NVP's
speak. Many of them talked about the REsults/"Puppy" approach and the
dropping off of kits to build your business. So I am somewhat confused
on why they would have been pushing this if it isnt endorsed by A******.



Also, Rita was there as well. So...again, I dont know what to think
becuase I would assume she is up to speed on everything A******, and if
it wasn't endorsed surely she would have mentioned something to
someone..



Has anyone heard anything new regarding this from their uplines or the company?


Edited by: nbrendal

part of the kit now is a sample pack when you purchase the REsults sets

My nation teaches it. I personally don't drop a full demo set off to people I don't know. That is more so as a safeguard for me...knowing friends &amp; friends of friends are more likely to do the pickup &amp; not keep the set. I clean the sets (&amp;the bag!) each time. I think until Home Office takes an official stance &amp; sends out an officialmemo (like the one recently about the $1000 start month being extended) people will continue doing whichever they are comfortable with.

I agree with Teresa. Right now when you read the company's information on the approach there is wiggle room to do it either way. Yes, it is recommended to do it one way but not mandated.


I know some people have gotten personal emails about it but until the VPs are told that is the case then it will continue to be done in whatever way is working for them &amp; their team.

I send the full sets out on a regular basis. I make sure they are clean and look presentable. No complaints and the results have been good.

I heard on a conference call that if we'regoing to use full size sets to give to people, that we should have liability insurance, since we're all Independent Consultants. I don't think that'sa bad idea. It's a crazy world out there.

I asked my NVP about using the full sets vs. what a..... "recommends", and she didn't say much. I asked if it was kinda like the red-headed stepchild no one wants to talk about, and she laughed and said yes. So, of course, uplines are still going to encourage passing around full-size sets b/c this means more people buying full size sets vs. samples. I think it is quite rediculous that we will get emails stating we are going against compliance b/c our website contains the word "cancer," but nothing is being done about this. The policy states that we only order 70% sold, and this approach is clearly against that. I can't happen but think that b/c this "new method" is bringing in so much extra business, that someone high up is looking the other way, but puts "recommend samples" to save their behind. I am writing them today.

I am just going to throw this out there, sorry if it makes even more controversy- forget about all the contamination issues &amp; front loading- but if you are handing out open sets that don't have the full ingredient lists you need to be really careful as there are more and more people out there with nut allergies. My daugther'sfirst very serious reation was from body glitter that had macadamia nut oil in it. Prior to that, I never even realized how many skin products had nut oil in them or that they would make her sick, her allergist never even told us. This product wasn't from our company, but several of our products do have nut oils. So, if you are handing outopened sets to try without the packaging that has the ingredients, beware.In that case, insurance probably is a good idea - as I remember reading somewhere that if packaging has been tampered with A** is not liable. Edited by: sportsmom

The contamination issues aside, I still can't see this as front loading. When I owned my scrapbook store, we had plenty of products that were purchased as demo's or used to make displays to show what could be done with them. Customers came in and were able to try the products and were able to decide if they likedthem enough to buy. Believe me, the costs were well above what people are spending for 4, 6, or 8 sets. Ihad a rather small store &amp; I know otherscrap biz ownersspent much, much more than I did. It was simply part of the cost of doing business. These demo sets are consumable and will be depleted as they are used so I am always confused when the 70% rule or front loading is brought up in conjunction with them. What am I missing?

Yes, but did your customers take home the products and use them in their bathroom? People can do what they want with their sets, but I think all these new consultants buying the sets for this purpose need to realize that they are reliable if anything goes wrong. I highly doubt that is being taught. People can still get the results using samples. But, samples don't promote you quickly. I have passed around a couple full-sized sets to people I knew, and explained that they were used. I do see how this has great appeal - people see what they are getting, they are more likely to use it, etc. But, what I totally disagree with is what it has turned into. In my nation, people are pushed to buy 8 sets, plus 4 mens set. That is a huge investment. They are pretty much looked over if they are not willing to come in with an investment. This, to me, is frontloading b/c consultants are more consumed about high volume than the individual making the purchase. I still think a few bad apples is giving everyone a bad name. If the results approach is used correctly, I say go for it, if you can afford it and know what you are getting into. I had a new consultant last month who knew of 4 people right away that would love the set. She thought it was a great bargain since it also qualified her for $400 of product for $80. She was happy. But, I would never tell her "this is the only way to be successful." I think it is more of an issue b/c it is well known that the recommendation is for a sample to be used, but our leadership - our upline - still says to pass around the actual set.

I definitely understand the contamination issue, thats why I said contamination issues aside. And no, no one took the products home, again why I said contamination issues aside. I was speaking more to the money spent on sets bought for demos.I was just trying to understand how that pertained to the 70% rule &amp; frontloading.


I think it is very unfortunate that anyone who wants to build a biz is being overlooked for any reason. I know it is happening &amp; it definitely goes against the foundation of this company. I am glad I am not in the position of having to police it all. It would become heavy &amp; disheartening I am sure. I just try to keep my focus on my goals &amp; where I am going, looking for opportunities to happily help others along the way.From my experience with those who have helped me, THAT is a huge part of the foundation of this company.

I wish my experience had been different, but all I can do now is make sure I don't repeat the same mistake. (Its hard sometimes when you see people being so successful and you don't agree w/ there approachsmileys/smiley2.gif), but, that is not going to help my business, or those under me. I did write to the home office to voice my concerns, because I feel they are legit and starting to give our company a bad name).


As far as frontloading, the sets are not supposed to be used for testing. They are bought with the hope of finding someone to buy it after using the sample that got dropped off with it. So, they have not been sold yet. This is one of my issues. The home office comes down on the websites, but finds a loophole for the results approach. But like I said, I could dwell on this issue, or do something about it. Which I did. Lets get back to encouraging talk, whadya say??

......but several of our products do have nut oils. So, if you are handing outopened sets to try without the packaging that has the ingredients, beware.In that case, insurance probably is a good idea - as I remember reading somewhere that if packaging has been tampered with A** is not liable.





Sportsmom, you scared me...I researched this and thank goodness the ONLY products that contain nut oil in Ar**** are:


Aromassentials Unwind Massage Oil


and the Skin Conditioning Oil.


Good info! smileys/smiley2.gif

I'm going to throw in my .02 even though this topic has been debated fairly frequently so I'm sure I've already expressed my opinion in some form or fashion somewhere. smileys/smiley1.gif


I understand the reasoning behind calling it frontloading but I simply disagree. The demo sets that are used in this way, all other issues aside with that, are used for the purposes of selling the product. Much in the same way people who do the party biz buy products to demo at their parties.


I know when I did the party approach I bought products for people to try, smell &amp; feel. Was 70% of those products sold? Of course not. Did anyone ever imagine caling it frontloading? Not to mention the productsI gave away as gifts. Of course not. Why? Because demo products are a valid business expense. They are selling tools. No difference in my opinion.


I spent more on products for parties than I've had to for demo sets used in the results approach. A little here, a little there adds up. At least with the results approach I knew the expense up front &amp; that was it, one time purchase.


It is not the results approach that is bad, it's how some people are using it. People do things with the party approach that aren't exactly compliant either. It's inevitable when you have something so easy for anyone to get into. There really isn't an easy way for home office to police ethics &amp; morality on pushing things or using scare tatics or whatever. However, it would be wrong (imho) to completely dismiss either approach as wrong b/c a few people go too far &amp; cross the line. That isn't fair to all the other ones who don't &amp; are just trying to use an approach that they are comfortable with doing. Edited by: Soonergirl74

Hi I had asked arbonne about the nut ingredients before and got this reply:


Thank you for your e-mail.


Products that contain nut-derived ingredients (including oils and extracts)


Note: All of the production equipment is sterilized between products, but the manufacturing facilities are not nut-free:





About Face Eye Pencils, About Face Lip Pencils, Aromassentials Awaken Shower Gel, Aromassentials Awaken Sea Salt Scrub, Aromassentials Unwind Shower Gel, Aromassentials Unwind Massage Oil, Bio-Hydria® Gentle Exfoliant, Bio-Hydria® Extreme, Facial Scrub, Moisture Cream Normal to Dry, Moisture Cream Normal to Oily, Night Cream Normal to Dry, Night Cream Normal to Oily, Rejuvenating Cream, Skin Conditioning Oil, Thermal Fusion Enzyme Masque, PhytoProlief, Prolief, NutriMinC® RE9 Body Lotion, NutriMinC® RE9 Night Crème, NutriMinC® RE9 Lift, NutriMinC® RE9 Facial Scrub, NutriMenC™ RE9 Exfoliating Wash, NutriMenC™ RE9 Shave Gel, Figure 8® Chocolate Chews, Bio-Nutria® Herbal Vapor Rub





Below are products that contain PEANUT oil:


Aromassentials Unwind Massage Oil, Skin Conditioning Oil





We hope this information is helpful. Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.





Regards,





Product Questions

As the mother of a son who is allergic to peanuts... the best thing you can do is to print out and have with you the entire product knowledge manual. I say this because those of us who deal with these allergies daily will not even buy products without knowing the ingredients first as exposing ourselves or our loved ones to something unknown could be life threatening. Always have the product knowledge manual handy.





Sportsmom, you scared me...I researched this and thank goodness the ONLY products that contain nut oil in Ar**** are:


Aromassentials Unwind Massage Oil


and the Skin Conditioning Oil.


Good info! smileys/smiley2.gif





Walnut(scientific name: Juglans Regia Shell Powder) is found in the following products:
- Facial Scrub
- NutriMenC RE9 REveal Exfoliating Wash
- NutriMinC® RE9 Reveal Facial Scrub



Macadamia(scientific name: Macadamia Ternifolia Seed Oil) is found in the following products:
- About Face Eye Pencils
- About Face Lip Pencils
- Aromassentials Awaken Sea Salt Scrub
- Aromassentials Unwind Massage Oil
- Skin Conditioning Oil

alldeckedout - sorry i scared you - actually there are many more products that contain nut oils. Don't assume this is a full list, but here's more i found -


sweet almond oil is in at least 13 products (maybe more)


PEG-20 Almond Glycerides is in the RE9 lift


PEG-60 Almond Glycerides in the the Unwind bath &amp; shower gel


Macadamia Ternifolia See Oil (same as Macadamia nut oil) is in at least 5 products


Walnut is in at least 3 products


Pecan is in at least 2 products


Peanut is in at least 2 products (the ones that were mentioned in the above post)


Again, didn't mean to scareyou but thisis real serious stufffor a lot of people.

smileys/smiley36.gifSportsmom, we posted the same time about the same thing!smileys/smiley36.gif


edit to add


Peanut(scientific name: Arachis Hypogaea Oil) is found in the following products:
- Aromassentials Unwind Massage Oil
- Skin Conditioning Oil



Sweet Almond(scientific name: Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis Oil) is found in the following products:
- Aromassentials Awaken Sea Salt Scrub
- Bio-Hydria® Extreme
- Moisture Cream Normal to Dry
- Moisture Cream Normal to Oily
- Night Cream Normal to Dry
- Night Cream Normal to Oily
- NutriMenC RE9 REsurface Shave Gel
- NutriMinC® RE9 Recover Night Creme
- NutriMinC® RE9 Refinish, Hydrating Body Lotion
- PhytoProlief
- Prolief
- Rejuvenating Cream
- Thermal Fusion Enzyme Masque



PEG-20 Almond Glycerides is found in the following products:
- NutriMinC® RE9 Reversing Gelee, Transforming Lift



PEG-60 Almond Glycerides is found in the following products:
- Aromassentials Unwind Bath &amp; Shower Gel



Pecan(scientific name: Carya Ilinoensis Seed Oil) is found in the following products:
- Aromassentials Unwind Massage Oil
- Skin Conditioning Oil
Edited by: cassandra

yes, I think we did. smileys/smiley1.gif

I am just going to throw this out there, sorry if it makes even more controversy- forget about all the contamination issues &amp; front loading- but if you are handing out open sets that don't have the full ingredient lists you need to be really careful as there are more and more people out there with nut allergies. My daugther'sfirst very serious reation was from body glitter that had macadamia nut oil in it. Prior to that, I never even realized how many skin products had nut oil in them or that they would make her sick, her allergist never even told us. This product wasn't from our company, but several of our products do have nut oils. So, if you are handing outopened sets to try without the packaging that has the ingredients, beware.In that case, insurance probably is a good idea - as I remember reading somewhere that if packaging has been tampered with A** is not liable.


The sample packs don't have the ingredients listed either do they? I believe they have that little sheet in the anti-aging but it can be left in the gold bag for those who use full demo sets as packaging.


I don't believe the basics had the list anywhere. So then this would apply to anyone using any approach giving samples to people, be it full sets or packets.

I only personally use the RE9 samples, and they do have the sheet. I wouldn't know about the others as I don't have them. That's really too bad if they don't.


Personally, what I do, is I do ask everyone when I hand things out, "do you have any allergies?" I gently explain because our products are not mineral oil but natural oils that someone with allergies would want to take a closer look. This has worked very well for me and I think people take extra notice that I am looking out for them.

That's a nice way to handle it sportsmom!

in the samples, the ingredients are printedon the back of the packets.





Also to note, there is wheat germ oil in some of the RE9 products, and I have a couple clients that are allergic to wheat and can't use them.

Excellent point about the wheat germ oil.There are so many people out there with different allergies its just something to be aware of when handing things out. I like Cassandra's idea about printing all the sheets and keeping a manual with you. I put on my to do list last night to buy another thin3 ring binder as I am going to do this as well and just keep it in my car. (I currently just had a list with me of the products that had nuts but I realize now my closeness to that issue was a mistake and I need to be better about all the ingredients).


I just want to clarify that I never ask about allergies in a scary way - I just gently inquire. After seeing several people (both adults &amp; kids) have reactions in the past from both eating foods and external exposure, its something I would just feel so awful about if I wasn't aware &amp; careful about what I was giving out to whom.


Of course people need to take some personal responsibility when they have allergies, but I think that alot of people that sell products (not just our company but many companies) don't really even know what's in them so you wouldn't want to say, no, it doesn't have that - and then turns out it did. Just know your products &amp; you'll be fine. If you still want to hand out open kits just know thatif the bottles has been open/tampered with the company isn't liable and so maybe you should consider the suggestion someone made about having insurance. Since so much of this is about securing the financial security of our families, would we really want to put that in jeopardy?

sportsmom, the product knowledge manual is big, use a regular size binder, not the thin ones... another thing, you may want to hold off til the new products come out, there should be an updated product knowledge manual then as http://www.wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gifwell

Good Point about waiting &amp; thanks for the heads up on the size. I guess we do have a lot of products soa thinone wouldn't work after all. I think I will start with the products now I am pretty sure are staying which are also the ones I wind up talking about the most and then wait a few weeks for the rest.

Thanks for all the education girls!!! smileys/smiley2.gif


My upline suggested that we print out the entire Product Manual as soon as we started our biz, so I always have mine with me and refer to it often!! I also have my laptop with me and can pull up the website to check alot, too!


smileys/smiley4.gif