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Well, let me first start by saying that for a few years I owned my own company making gourmetcandles and enjoyed doing this very much. I stopped for awhile because we moved and now have since joined a candle company and buying its candle for resale. I have just in the last days realized I can earn more money by creating them on my own. The company I was with is also a MLM company and they have great products. To replace the kind of longterm income I could have had with that company I realized could be done by creating a wholesale purchase option with my company and still creating an income from people who don't want to make candles for resale just to purchase them for resale. Has anyone been down this road before where you made candles, then bought from someone for resale and then decided to make them on your own? Just wondering. I guess Im so attention to detail that I think I can create a better candle and create more of an income as well.

Just the opposite for us actually. I use to be a reseller, but when she went exclusive with a direct sales company I didn't like the restrictions. So we started playing with formulas to make our own candles. This was MUCH better to me because it gave us complete control over the business. I don't like being told what/how I can sell.

I agree with you. No restrictions and complete control.

I have, Jason. I started making my own candles a long time ago. It started as just for personal use, a hobby. I ended up giving some away as gifts, etc. but that's it. I didn't really think much of starting a business with it, for me it was more for fun.

Then I joined a candle company (or two http://wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) because I thought there was NO way I could ever physically make enough candles to sell . The way I was doing it was very time consuming. I was making one at a time, using a double boiler. NOT a good way to make a lot of candles at a time, lol. So, I was in a couple candle companies (which were both GREAT companies), but soon realized that I was missingthe creative side of it all.

My friends and family keep asking for more candles, and are extremely supportive of me starting my own line. So, I'm thinking about it. Now that I've spent so much money on the testing for years, I could focus more on the making of the candles rather than figuring out what works and what doesn't. I think that an MLM or a party-plan type candle business is great, and can make someone a lot of money. However, I'm not certain I'm the right type of person for that business model. Everyone is different! I enjoy creating something myself and seeing my product please people. It's quite a sense of accomplishment.

I am just starting out, so you can take my experience for whatever it's worth. Now that I've tried it both ways, I really think making my own is the way for me. I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide! http://wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif

Hello Jason,

I used to make my own candles and bath products too...

When I added in the huge liability insurance required, the hours invested, the product wasted in testing, the hours invested, the time lost with family, the hours invested, etc...

I realized I made more money with fewer hours invested when I started in the direct sales industry.

So you have to weigh the cost of the jars, the wax, the scents, the wicks, the constant testing the hefty insurance (you'll need it for product AND your home or location where you make the candles) business license, wholesale license, etc..etc...

For my my company got to the size I was working 15 hour days and around the holidays I'm not sure I even slept. I remember December 2006 I had about 300 orders to ship before the USPS deadline, so I'll add in STRESS too!

Most important, follow your passion, and of course weigh your options!

Hello Jason,

I used to make my own candles and bath products too...

When I added in the huge liability insurance required, the hours invested, the product wasted in testing, the hours invested, the time lost with family, the hours invested, etc...

I realized I made more money with fewer hours invested when I started in the direct sales industry.

So you have to weigh the cost of the jars, the wax, the scents, the wicks, the constant testing the hefty insurance (you'll need it for product AND your home or location where you make the candles) business license, wholesale license, etc..etc...

For my my company got to the size I was working 15 hour days and around the holidays I'm not sure I even slept. I remember December 2006 I had about 300 orders to ship before the USPS deadline, so I'll add in STRESS too!

Most important, follow your passion, and of course weigh your options!


You bring up some great points Althea! Uuuggghh, every day I go back and forth between what I want to do http://wahm.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif.

Well let me explain it the way I see masiking candles vs MLM or other options. I have a list of cost per product I make and the smallest profit margin I have for any one product is 44%, the highest is 70%. I also charge around .92 per ounce on all products. The previous company I was with and others I had looked at only allowed for @25% profit. One stated they allowed for 50% profit but the cost of the candle after taxes and shipping is simply crazy($24 for a 16oz. candle, no way) and I can create a cheaper costing candle creating more profit margin which in return will be much easier to put on my customers. Yes you have a business lic. to purchase but I have one now and its not any problem, you have to claim taxes no matter who you are with. Which brings me toanother point. You don't have to claim taxes on anything below a 5000 per year income. Yes you may say youcould make more elsewhere not to shoot low, but I know some companies have quotas that average $1800 per year so if you were with that company you would be doing well. I also have a supplier ofmy products here where I live and Ilove going in tosee the new itemsthey have and being able to create that new product formy customers. Also, the liability insurance is not a have to, I talked with a lawyer about this and he said that if you placed a burn label with cautions on the bottom that it would be fine. However, if I did purchase it it would cost me $20 a month, not much of an investment. I djust don't like companies ability to set prices. With gas going up Im sure these MLM companies will raise prices. I can purchase more in bulk decreasing cost per candle and actually control that factor. Also, I use a one pour wax and I measure the clear melted wax just before I put in the color and scent, so when I pour and because its a one pour wax, I have zero left over of that scent and no waste at all.

Jason,

That is one way to look at it for sure, but I can guarantee you putting a label on the bottom of your jar will not save you from a law suit. If that was the case then why does ANY company carry liability insurance?

I also doubt you can get a multi million dollar insurance policy for $20 per month especially if you told the company you are making your own candles in your home...maybe...but it really does not seem right.

Also if you burn down your own home making candles, your home owner's insurance will not cover it as it was process of running a business. So be sure to get a home business rider in addition to liability insurance.

Of course up front the cost is less, but have you added in cost for hours spent working the business?

Have you added in cost for materials lost for testing? As a candle maker you have to run tests on each new batch of wax, each time you get fragrance, each new batch of wicks. Safety, safety, safety...

Again, not trying to discourage you, making candles IS fun. I just want to be sure you know all the stuff you need to know. I've seen you on many of the candle forums asking questions which is good.

The key to MLM is when you own your own business you get profits from what you sell. In MLM you get profits from what other people sell.

The question is, would you prefer 100% profit from one person, or 1% profit from the efforts of 100, 1000, 10,000 peoples' efforts?

That is the difference between owning your own business and representing an MLM.

Most of the people whom are millionaires in the US are MLMers...

Also, in MLM or owning your own home business it's wise to claim the income regardless because the deductions off set income and can by far help out HUGE on the tax return!

What you should do is consult a business lawyer, tax accountant and business advisor. Many people start businesses without all the proper research which is why 98% of new businesses fail in less than 2 years.

Again...making candles is fun and I hope you'd be aiming for MORE than $5000 a year in profits!!!!

Good luck, have fun and do research!!!

Wow, I would be appalled to find out the candlemaker I'm purchasing from considered liability insurance to be unnecessary. As a customer I would see it as lacking not just business sense but overall common sense. It would make me worry about the quality of the candles they produce and how much attention to detail they put into their business.

I tend to use wickless now because I had a house fire due to a defective candle I purchased from one of the companies here on this board. Fortunately the damage was minor and I'm not one to sue, but not everyone is that forgiving. Just defending yourself against a lawsuit can run into the thousands.

I had my own handmade soap company for 7yrs and the minimum I ever paid for a policy was $600 per year and that was a bare bones policy through the soapmakers guild (they also cover candle makers). It did not cover my home or personal possessions.

I haven't made soap to resale in over 5 yrs, so I'm sure that amount is much higher now. I know that a lot of craft shows and wholesale buyers are now requiring a min. 2 million dollar policy.

I found my experience with running my own business both joyful and exasperating. There are days when I even contemplate giving it another go..for about a minute. I do miss the creative side, but I don't miss the looong hours. It was definitively not all rainbows and puppy farts.



edited: due to spelling and weird incoherent sentences.</font>

Edited by: Birdie

I have been doing this for eight years. I think your being too picky to details. Running tests? Are you kidding? I do burn my own candles if thats what you mean. MLM isn't for me. Many or most candle MLM will never make millions and Im nottrying to. I enjoy making some extra money and giving what I think is the best product available. I think having to join for a start upcost or monthly fees just to be active to earn money or have quotas that if you don't meet then you fall into a lower pay scale isn't my idea of having no headaches.

Jason, your name sounds familiar, what was the name of your candle company? Did you sell them online?

Jason,

I'd love to see your product! What's your web link?

Jason, I'd rather go with a company that is TOO picky than not picky. Yes, testing is EXTREMELY important and any savvy business person will know that.


I read in one of your earlier posts about, 'if gas prices go up, i'm sure these MLM companies will raise their prices.'


Well of COURSE they will! As is everybody else! Including private companies such as candles, bath &amp; body, etc. Because in order to get supplies, you have to pay shipping, and you know UPS is raising their costs, and the wholesale suppliers are raising their costs, etc.


I used to have my own successful bath &amp; body company. I made, packaged, labeled, marketed, and merchandised the products. I was the accountant, the warehouse person, customer service, web designer, CEO, R&amp;D, and so on.


It was quite a successful business, but I was exhuasted. So I cut my product line back to my best sellers.


Still, I was exhuasted, broke, stressed, and more. It takes over your house, your life, and ALL your income.
Birdie, I know we've chatted before, and my $2 million liability insurance policy cost me $1500 yearly. That was a year ago.

Like Birdie, I loved the creative side. I LOVED hearing people tell me how great my soaps, and other products were.I lovedseeing articles in magazinesand the papers about my products. I also knewI worked my butt off to get my name out there.IF I were to make it again, it would just be for friends and family and myself.

Candlemaking is no different. I even thought of doing it for about a minute then laughed.

If you ARE going to do it, DON'T be a fool and not test or not purchase liability insurance.

Sure those aren't necessary, but you can guarantee someone will come after you. GUARANTEE it, especially in this day and age. For the slighest incident, and you'l be wishing you had it.

Edited by: Candlemama

Jhanna -

Yes testing is important as is liability insurance. It may be expensive (depending on your location and what shipping is going to cost for supplies), although I don't think you are going to convince anyone here in the Candlemakers folder that an MLM company is better than making your own.


Candlemaking is no different. I even thought of doing it for about a minute then laughed.


If this statement is true, then I do not think you should be in this folder. It's for those who make their own candles and are very happy (and successful) with what they do. It's not a joke to us.

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Well on my part I'm here as a consumer. I like candles, I like buying candles, I like checking out what everyone is selling. I buy/have bought from direct sellers and independents, as long as the product is good, my money doesn't know the difference. Jason seems to be so flippant about the fact that he will be making a product that has the potential to injure or kill. That to me, as a customer, is SCARY! The worst that I had to face with soapmaking was someone getting a bad rash not having their whole house go up in flames. I think it does a great disservice to those candle artist who are "too picky" and put a great deal of attention to detail to say "la di da it's so easy to pour some wax, stick a wick in it and make oodles of money".
Edited by: Birdie

Oh, Kara no! I apologize if it came off that way at all.

My goal isn't to convince anyone that an MLM isbetter. I have only the utmost respect for chandlers, because I know what it takes.

I re-read the sentence you highlighted, and it wasn't what I intended at all. What I meant when I said that was in reference to myself only, and how much work it took to do my bath and body business, that I personally don't have it in me to go back to doing it all myself. That is what the laugh was about, not anyone else.

My only goal by posting was to support the professional chandlers and their businesses by letting Jason know that he is taking his approach too lightly.

I absolutely apologize if it came off any other way than that. I do peek in on this folder every now and then because I love candles, and as a consumer I like to see and read about the new fragrances, waxes, and designspeople are working with.

I appreciate your reply Jhanna, and I do see what you are saying now. I'm sorry I misunderstood. I tend to get a little jumpy because we've had a lot of problems in this folder in the past, so I apologize.

I do agree there are a lot of factors that need to be taken very seriously. Although one point I did forget to highlight:

I also doubt you can get a multi
million dollar insurance policy for $20 per month especially if you
told the company you are making your own candles in your
home...maybe...but it really does not seem right.



It is possible, depending on your area and insurance company. I'm not the one who directly pays this bill (my mom is the one who actually makes the candles in her home), but I know it's not a huge expense. Making sure we had liability insurance was one of the first things we did. Yes she contacted her insurance company and </font>discussed exactly what she was doing in her home and what was covered. I do believe we're covered for up to $500,000 and don't pay that much extra a month.

Honestly I think it has to do a lot with your state and insurance provider.


The question is, would you prefer
100% profit from one person, or 1% profit from the efforts of 100,
1000, 10,000 peoples' efforts?


You also need to remember that it does take work to build a downline. You have to work just as hard (if not harder) to sign on someone as you would gaining the trust of a customer. Those who own their own business have the option of "building a downline" of sorts by offering wholesale, dropshipping, or affiliate programs. The profit margin is still usually larger than MLM, but it should be since they are not just selling but making the candles as well.

There are a lot of pros and cons to both business models and neither are "perfect". What it really comes down to is which you enjoy the most.

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Kara I agree with you 100%. Let me just also say for the previous few posts. I have looked into an insurance policy and its rather inexpensive and I am looking at a company on the internet that charges $349 per year for $1000000 policy. I also have a lawyer that I talked to and we talked about McDonalds and the coffee the woman spilled and then got money from McDonalds, well if you have a burn label and the candle burned a house down. The judge will look at the cause of the fire trying to determine it was the candle. If it was the candle, do you think that if it was placed near something that it could catch on fire that the person wouldn't be guilty themselves. If a gun was loaded and someone shot themselves would you look at the gun maker for fault? No.

People have and will continue to be sued and lose for liability. DO take a look at the McDonald's case...they lost, even though they just provided the coffee.

Same thing with candles.

And gun maker's have lost those cases too. Pretty recently as well.

I would actually ask some of the chandlers here what they would suggest in the way of solid liability insurance companies.

Take advantage of the wealth of information on this forum. Edited by: Candlemama

I have been having fun making them for myself for over a year. I used to be with a few MLM candle companies and that was fun, too.


I do feel very nervous when you think of the liability issue. I don't sell mine yet, but I have thought about maybe doing a craft show or two just for fun.


Is it possible to just classify it as a hobby, rather than a business, just to start out at and see what interest there is out there? Or is it something that you recommend setting up a business with my state and trying it out. I would rather not get into that hassle unless I was to do this full time. Right now it is just a hobby for me and my family, and if the test day for sales were low, or whatever, I want to be able to just stop selling and continue making them for myself.


It is so much cheaper to make them myself. Although I first bought really pretty jars, but I realize that I don't need that extra expense. I want to get small plain straight sided round jelly jars with plain metal caps.

Hi I am a newbie and would like to make candle melts. I don't want to make anything that anyone can burn will that still be a liability and could I sell them. I am more interested in the smell. Where can I buy good product for good prices wholesale I would like to start with making Soy melts but don't know where to start with buying a melter etc.