WAHM Forums

Okay - I hate to use the term "fire" but it is the only term I can think of right now.

Have you guys ever done this?

I am working on a project where the time I am spending with edits, re-dos, etc...is above and beyond normal for me and therefore, I am barely making minimum wage.

I really enjoy working with this client and would love to continue - but in order to do so, I'll either have to limit the edits....or increase my rates for the project.

I really don't mind making changes to a design...but on this particular project the client simply says things like "I am not feeling this one" so I am starting from scratch (sometimes several times for one graphic).

90% of my clients are content with the first sample (or they have very few edits) so I've been able to keep my rates fairly low.

Do you have any suggestions for ensuring you have happy clients...without sacrificing your own income?

I have a few other ongoing projects where I am making twice as much (despite charging a similar rate)...that's why I am struggling because hour for hour...I am better off focusing on these projects. (....and we all know how *few* hours WAHMS get to spend at work!) smileys/smiley2.gif


TIA!

Traci



Edited by: simplesahm

You'll unfortunately have to finish out this job for this client. However, you can enter this info into your TOS (I have this clause in mine).


Revision Policy


We do up to three revisions on ALL our website and flash designs free of charge. Any design revisions afterwards will cost an additional $30/per hour which will be added on to your final bill. We also do up to three FREE revisions on ALL graphics designs. If you need additional revisions, you will incur a fee of $30/per hour on the said graphics design project. Final bill will be due upon completion and before transfer of the completed design.

Also remember to watermark your images. This way they won't be able to use any of the unapproved design.

I have in all my contracts a limit on edits, for graphics, web sites, anything. Unfortunately some clients will try to take advantage... if it's in your contract that you only do X amount of edits, you can always be "nice" and do an extra one if you wanted to. If it's not stated, then it's easy for them to use the " you didn't tell me that..." line.

Thank you so much!!! That helps tremendously!

Right now - my design *job* is more of a hobby. At least while my kiddos are still home during the day. (My DS is 3 and DD is 4)

I haven't encountered this situation yet so I guess I will have to chalk it up to a learning experience and make some serious changes to my billing / TOS. (Which I haven't really developed yet).

DH (who runs a business) thinks I am crazy because I am very lenient in terms of the amount of time I spend on a project. He has also been trying to get me to increase my rates.

It's a tough situation because I like helping out other moms as much as possible..but it hurts my own family when I work too many hours (and charge too little) on certain projects.

Again...thank you!




Edited by: simplesahm

I am in the same boat as you, simplewahm. The project seems never ending. Every day, they ask me to do a new thing they hadn't asked me to do before. I made the mistake of saying I offer unlimited revisions. I have always done so with no problems, but I am as of right now taking that out of my TOS because this client has severely abused that and I can see the potential for re-abuse in the future with other clients. So now I am struggling to figure out how to tell clients that I want to deliver a site they are 100% happy with, while still protecting myself from the "I know I just asked you to re-do all 60 buttons, but I've decided I don't like them - can you change them back? Also, can you change the layout from blue to black and make it have 4 columns instead of 2? Also..." people.

I have had to set continual limits with this client and remind them that unlimited revisions implies that eventually, the revisions will end and that we needed clear end points. It is for a comprehensive e-commerce site; I have VASTLY undercharged them in hindsight. They've asked for add-on after add-on after add-on. I just want the remaining balance at this point, but today they asked me to re-edit ALL their catalogue images in high-resolution so they could use it in print, and I've just had to decline this, because the original agreement was that I edit the images in medium-resolution for the online catalogue only. I know he's going to rant and rave at me because I'm saying no, but it would tack on at least another 10 hours to this project and enough is enough.

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone. :)

Edited by: beechrose

I am in the same boat as you, simplewahm. The project seems never ending. Every day, they ask me to do a new thing they hadn't asked me to do before. I made the mistake of saying I offer unlimited revisions. I have always done so with no problems, but I am as of right now taking that out of my TOS because this client has severely abused that and I can see the potential for re-abuse in the future with other clients. So now I am struggling to figure out how to tell clients that I want to deliver a site they are 100% happy with, while still protecting myself from the "I know I just asked you to re-do all 60 buttons, but I've decided I don't like them - can you change them back? Also, can you change the layout from blue to black and make it have 4 columns instead of 2? Also..." people.

I have had to set continual limits with this client and remind them that unlimited revisions implies that eventually, the revisions will end and that we needed clear end points. It is for a comprehensive e-commerce site; I have VASTLY undercharged them in hindsight. They've asked for add-on after add-on after add-on. I just want the remaining balance at this point, but today they asked me to re-edit ALL their catalogue images in high-resolution so they could use it in print, and I've just had to decline this, because the original agreement was that I edit the images in medium-resolution for the online catalogue only. I know he's going to rant and rave at me because I'm saying no, but it would tack on at least another 10 hours to this project and enough is enough.

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone. :)



Thank you so much! Yes..it sounds like a similar situation - only my services are limited to basic graphics right now. I can only imagine how hard it would be if I were trying to design a complete site with an unlimited revision policy.

Have you ever done a time-analysis? I sat down the other night and figured out what I was earning on one particular project. The results were completely eye opening! I included e-mails back and forth, the initial sample, the edits, uploading files, etc...

I didn't start doing design to make a ton of money...but I need to make *at least* minimum wage. =)

I had a client the other day pay me double my rate (even though I didn't ask) because she realized how many hours I was actually working on her project.

Sometimes I think some clients just aren't recognizing how much time a designer spends on a project...frankly - I didn't realize it either so I shouldn't expect them to.

Anyway - it is good to know that I am not the only one dealing with this. smileys/smiley2.gif

Dear Simplesahm,

This is a good question... A short reply.
Don't forget to have exclusions in your contract for...

Email instructions... you won't be handling their spam
or taking care of messages.

html instructions... no html training

computer instructions... no teaching or repair
this is a short list I pulled from an ebook.

http://webmasterbusiness.sitesell.com/Robert5.html

Use the parts you need. They provide this information
hoping one day you'll use their services.

I've posted it here because there's SOO MANY details
to a webmaster business --- it's impossible to post
everything on this topic here.

Robert



Edited by: countryguide

I have never had this problem myself to date, but you have brought up some very important points that I will take into consideration for future. I generally charge enough and communicate in so much detail it normally eliminates all of that.

My business model revolves around the idea that development with me is quick, painless and easy, and for the most part it works VERY well, but there's always one bad apple in the bunch.

NightmareClient, as described above, has been officially fired. Today he called me in the middle of the afternoon even though he is aware that Sunday is my family day - I have told him numerous Sundays in the past - and demanded that I create new pages for free, or teach him how, right that very instant. I declined and he lost his mind at me, swearing, yelling, insulting me, etc. Since he wouldn't stop shouting, I hung up on him and sent him an email firing him. You can imagine how well that went down. Hopefully that's the end of that, though.

I am so disappointed though. I really really tried to please this client and in the end, still got sworn at and insulted.

Edited by: beechrose

NightmareClient, as described above, has been officially fired. Today he called me in the middle of the afternoon even though he is aware that Sunday is my family day - I have told him numerous Sundays in the past - and demanded that I create new pages for free, or teach him how, right that very instant. I declined and he lost his mind at me, swearing, yelling, insulting me, etc. Since he wouldn't stop shouting, I hung up on him and sent him an email firing him. You can imagine how well that went down. Hopefully that's the end of that, though.

I am so disappointed though. I really really tried to please this client and in the end, still got sworn at and insulted.

Eeeeeewwwwww smileys/smiley11.gif

I hope and trust you have many better, nicer clients too: you certainly ought to, with a portfolio and website like that! smileys/smiley2.gif

:D I do have a lot of MUCH nicer clients, honestly, this guy isn't a bad person either. I think he was just stressed out because he is under a lot of pressure and is one of those people that takes things out on the people around him, which is unacceptable. I decided to kill him with kindness, I sent him back an email saying that I regretted that this didn't work out, but that I sincerely wished him the best of luck with his business (all of which is true) and that for everyone's sake, it was just time to move on.

It's been 24 hours and nary a peep, so hopefully it sunk in smileys/smiley36.gif. I've been praying for him, to be honest, that he might find a little more peace and serenity and that things go well for his business. It made me feel better anyway , it's hard to be upset with someoen you've prayed for. :D

Edited by: beechrose