I've been reading a few of your posts on this board and I am interested in the company you are working for. Could your please email me more information?
Tony is a great guy I got an email from him he will be out of town until the 21st. Here is his website and you can email him from there. http://www.tonyrush.com
posted March 16, 2005 07:31 PM
While you're waiting for Tony to return from his seminar in Cancun, I would do my home work. Learn what the BIG DOGS @ LLI know and won't tell. They are already saturated. Just a word of caution. http://www.Truesourceofwealth.com
posted March 17, 2005 03:22 PM
Personally, I'm not in any of the high ticket direct sales companies, but I do know that saturation is practically non-existent in network marketing. Even some of the largest companies in the industry have some very good growth rates and are doing billions of dollars in business.
Maybe you can't recruit as many people from the discussion forums, haha, but if you know how to build, you can build with ANY company.
By the way, bashing other companies just to promote yours absolutely kills your credibility especially since you are bashing anonymously. Hilarious.
posted March 22, 2005 03:56 PM
youdeservetoberich,
Saturated? If LLI is saturated then so are all the other business opportunities! There are 330 million people in North America and 99% of them hate their jobs. Where is the saturation?
Here is some friendly advice: Start a Topic Thread on your business opportunity and let people know the positive points of it rather than bad-mouthing others in a vain attempt to market yours.
posted March 22, 2005 05:34 PM
Rhonda, thanks for your note. We just got back from Cancun so I apologize for the delay in getting back with you.
I sent you a private email but you can feel free to contact me at tony@tonyrush.com. Thanks for the professionalism of other members here who helped Rhonda while I was away.
Thanks! Tony Rush
P.S. By the way, here's a couple of pics that we took at the LLI event in Cancun. We got to spend some time with Andy Andrews (best-selling author of The Traveler's Gift) and Bill Phillips (founder of Body For Life.)
posted March 25, 2005 09:47 AM
Mommacroney, there are two ways to get started.
The only requirement to join Liberty League is $50 plus whatever you're going to budget for marketing and support tools.
The other way to get started (which I did) is to purchase the Beyond Freedom Home Study course as well. That's a $1,500 product that's worth every dime.
The best place to go for information is one of our live overview calls. The information is free and -- if you're really serious about making money -- then it'd be naive to make a decision based on the scant information that's found on these message boards.
If you'd like to attend a call, send me an email at tony@tonyrush.com or visit http://www.tonyrush.com .
By the way, let me add one more thing: some people think $1,500-$2,000 is "too expensive" to start a business. Evidently, they've never looked at what it really costs to start a business that can pay $250,000 in the first year.
There's no shortage of nickel-and-dime programs that will pay an extra $300 a month. But, the truth is that it's no harder to make $1,000 commissions than it is to make $5 commissions.
In fact, I've found it to be easier. When you're working in a real business with huge income potential, you tend to have fewer small-thinkers, whiners and bottom-feeders.
Besides, it's just a matter of thinking like a merchant, not like a consumer. When I looked at LLI, my thought was, "Will I spend a one-time $1,500 to be able to earn $5,000 every week?"
posted March 25, 2005 10:59 AM
So is it $50, or $1,500? $50 I can do, not $1,500. What will $50 get me to start? If that will allow me to get started with the business, then I'm interested and will send you my information. Thank you, Shelley
posted March 28, 2005 11:19 AM
Check this company out on the BBB. They have bad ratings and have neglected any attempts to talk with the BBB. I'd watch out. No offense to those supporting it, but flags flags went WAY up for me!
posted March 28, 2005 02:54 PM
Liberty League cost roughly $1500 to join.
Out of the $1500, a $1000 is paid to your enroller/sponsor.
I am not opposed to people earning a sponsoring bonus. I too checked out Liberty League, but I just can't go for a company that is obviously putting their primary focus on recruitment rather than product.
I have heard their products are good. I just don't like the idea of charging someone $1500 so the sponsor can earn a $1000.
I am sure Tony will disagree and he is probably doing well, but it simply isn't for me.
Diane
[This message has been edited by wahm56 (edited March 28, 2005).]
posted March 28, 2005 03:46 PM
BozZgrl said, "Check this company out on the BBB. They have bad ratings and have neglected any attempts to talk with the BBB. I'd watch out. No offense to those supporting it, but flags flags went WAY up for me!"
REPLY: Box, the BBB doesn't post favorable experiences unless you pay them. Nor are they a regulatory agency. Do a search on Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard or AT&T and you'll find a slew of BBB issues as well. It's a natural result of being in business for a long time.
If you're looking for the REAL research on any company, the organization to contact isn't the BBB. It's the Attorney General in the state in which they're located.
Do you know any direct sales company that has never had a complaint about something? I've been fulltime in the industry for almost 10 years and I don't know of a single one with a perfect complaint record.
But, if that's enough to keep you from getting involved, then that's certainly a personal choice that's entirely valid for you! Best of success in whatever you choose!
posted March 28, 2005 03:57 PM
Diane, I won't disagree with anything said about Liberty League that's accurate. But there seems to be so much misinformation (and DISinformation) online about LLI that it's worth making sure that people know the facts.
In fact, I'll be addressing many of these details on a Liberty League Blog at http://libertyleagueintl.blogspot.com if anyone would like to bookmark the page for facts, misinformation and my personal experiences with LLI.
quote:Liberty League cost roughly $1500 to join. Out of the $1500, a $1000 is paid to your enroller/sponsor.
This is an oversimplification that apparently needs correcting again.
There is NO product purchase required to join Liberty League. The cost to join is only $49.95. The product you'll be marketing is the Beyond Freedom Home Study Course. It has a retail price of $1,495 of which you keep a $1,000 profit once you're qualified.
But, no, it does not cost $1,500 to join LLI. Details on this will be posted at the blog referenced above.
quote:I am not opposed to people earning a sponsoring bonus. I too checked out Liberty League, but I just can't go for a company that is obviously putting their primary focus on recruitment rather than product.
This is an interesting perspective. If you visit http://www.libertyleague.com/start I think you'll find that almost the entire company site is based on PRODUCT, not opportunity.
Further, it's arguable that the same could be said for any other home-based business where reps are encouraged to recruit. Most people focus on finding new business partners....not just making sales to non-participants.
quote:I have heard their products are good. I just don't like the idea of charging someone $1500 so the sponsor can earn a $1000.
The product is excellent but I think you're making the same logical error on the price that most Americans make of any other product.
Price is based on value, not on cost. When you buy a car for $40,000, are you concerned with how much of that $40k went to the salesperson? No. Because the car was worth $40k to you and were willing to spend it.
When you buy a fountain drink at McDonald's are you concerned that you spent $1.25 for something that costs less than a nickel to produce? No...because you're willing to pay the retail price to get a drink.
We recently bought a home pregnancy test. It cost $15 and I was amazed when I saw the thing that it probably cost less than $.50 to manufacture. But, we didn't care. We were willing to spend $15 to get an answer to our question. (Unfortunately, the answer was "not-pregant". LOL)
So, when someone sees the value in the Beyond Freedom course, they don't have any qualms about who is making money and how much. They simply know they want to buy the course and start experiencing the results that others have. And that's the real value.
quote:I am sure Tony will disagree and he is probably doing well, but it simply isn't for me.
No, if you feel that way about the information you've got on LLI, then I agree it's not for you.
And I'm not one of those people who think that everyone should be involved in LLI. It's not for everyone. And there are lots of other businesses that people can get involved in that will help them get where they want to go financially.
It truly isn't the right opt for me. I wish you much success with it though. I know you were successful with your other business so I am sure you will be with Liberty League as well.
As I mentioned, I don't have a problem with someone earning a sponsoring bonus or commission for a sale. I just think $1000 is excessive.
It reeks of network marketing companies front loading to bring the so called big guns...heavy hitters...or if you prefer, 6 figure income earners into a company to recruit, recruit, recruit. Why else would they take a $495 product and add a $1000 to the purchasing price?
What does and has happened in many companies, is once the so called, big guns...6 figure earners have worked their market, many of them will leave the company and move on to the next golden opportunity offering high enrollment bonuses. The result of this is they leave a devasted organization behind or what's worse, try to recruit them to their newest venture.
Does that mean we shouldn't be business savvy and consider better opportunities, no, but not at the cost of others.
You and I both know, the $1495 is pushed, not the $49.95. And some won't even sponsor you unless you can purchase the $1495.
I spoke to 2 people about Liberty League. One never mentioned the $49.95 enrollment and the other I had to drag it out of this person to discover there was even another enrollment option besides the $1495.
Most direct selling/network marketing reps recruit and build a business. Why else would we do it if there wasn't an opportunity to earn income or residual income?
Again, I just feel the $1000 sponsoring bonus is excessive. Why the need to offer one so high? Only one reason I can think of.
When a company puts such a high up front sponsoring bonus on a product...it is not putting the focus on the product but rather recruiting for the money aspect..hence we are back to why they added the $1000 sponsoring bonus.
There is no "sponsoring bonus" in this or any of the other similarly structured opportunities. I think you're missing the boat here. Whether someone purchases the product as an associate OR they purchase the product just as a customer, the person who made the sale earns the $1,000 commission.
I know a guy on eBay who has a 400% mark-up on his products and people pay that price every day. So if he sold products that cost him $500 wholesale, he would have received $2,000 in revenue. That's a GREATER margin than what those at Liberty League make.
So why do people pay that much to purchase products from eBay, liberty league, coastal vacations, mentor's in motion, or any of the other direct sales type of companies? Because of the VALUE in the product. Just like Tony's pregnancy test example, it is worth the price to the end consumer to receive the product being marketed.
quote:As I mentioned, I don't have a problem with someone earning a sponsoring bonus or commission for a sale. I just think $1000 is excessive.
And that's ok. But, if you'll allow me to be blunt, you'll never be able to earn a huge income if you have an attitude that huge incomes are repulsive.
Perhaps that would be a good conversation to have on another thread. Because quite honestly, no one can ever earn more money than their mindset will accept. If someone believes it's unethical to earn more than, say, $50 commissions, then they will (by necessity) never earn more than $50 commissions. Think about it.
quote:It reeks of network marketing companies front loading to bring the so called big guns...heavy hitters...or if you prefer, 6 figure income earners into a company to recruit, recruit, recruit. Why else would they take a $495 product and add a $1000 to the purchasing price?
Sigh.
Go back and read my post. You'll see clearly that it's not a $495 product. It's a $1495 product. You're still trying to base the price on the cost.
Do you worry that every pharmaceutical you buy costs as much as 1,000 times what it costs to manufacture it? No? It's the same principle. In a capitalistic society, price is based on VALUE, not cost. And the Beyond Freedom course definitely has a value of far more than its price.
quote:What does and has happened in many companies, is once the so called, big guns...6 figure earners have worked their market, many of them will leave the company and move on to the next golden opportunity offering high enrollment bonuses. The result of this is they leave a devasted organization behind or what's worse, try to recruit them to their newest venture.
Diane, with all due respect, you're making things up now. Are you saying that's how people make huge money in LLI?
My advisor makes about $60k a month. He's only been in one other home business and he dropped out after sixty days. He never made any money.
Our top earner (who makes more than $100k a month) was in MLM before as a total failure. He never made more than a couple hundred bucks.
Does it happen? Sure, I imagine it does from time to time just like it does in any good company. But, MOST of the people making huge money didn't do what you're describing. So, what does any of this have to do with LLI?
quote:You and I both know, the $1495 is pushed, not the $49.95. And some won't even sponsor you unless you can purchase the $1495.
Hey, Diane, you seem to have two complaints that are contradictory. On the one hand you say we're not product focused. Now you're saying that we're pushing product.
LOL -- which is it? No one makes a dime in Liberty League unless a product is moved. (And that's in accordance with every pyramid law in the country). So, yes, we're in the business of moving product. Unless someone purchases a Beyond Freedom course, no one is getting paid!
That's the business we're in! Of course we want people to buy the product! But, no, it's not required to market the business.
quote:I spoke to 2 people about Liberty League. One never mentioned the $49.95 enrollment and the other I had to drag it out of this person to discover there was even another enrollment option besides the $1495.
Diane, are you making a judgment about the entire company over what two people did?
Seriously. We do 29 live guest presentations every week. Every one of them discuss the difference between ONLY signing up and how it works when you sign up AND buy the product. It's a standard discussion on all guest calls. There's no way someone could attend that call and not be informed. Did you ever attend a call?
quote:Again, I just feel the $1000 sponsoring bonus is excessive. Why the need to offer one so high? Only one reason I can think of.
Me, too: to allow people to earn a great commission on a great product. In spite of the fact that most people on these boards are terrified of money, there are millions of people who aren't interested in earning $2 on a bottle of vitamins sold. Or growing a beard waiting on a check to show up. Or working for 2-4 years to create a decent income.
In fact, I'd dare say that the average home-business entrepreneur on this (and other) discussion boards isn't enough to cover their own products each month. In fact, I'll put my head on the chopping block and say that 95% of the people on this (and other) boards don't even earn $1,000 a month from their home businesses.
And THAT is why Liberty League operates the way it does: it's a home business for people who are big thinkers, who are serious about creating a large income and who want to market a product that will help others achieve a more-than-average mindset.
quote:When a company puts such a high up front sponsoring bonus on a product...it is not putting the focus on the product but rather recruiting for the money aspect..hence we are back to why they added the $1000 sponsoring bonus.
Sigh. Again, we have misinformation. There is no "sponsoring bonus". No one makes a dime for sponsoring someone. We only get paid when someone buys product. With all due respect, you seem to be unpleasable.
Here you're upset that we're not putting emphasis on product. Five minutes ago, you were upset that we were pushing product.
Well, which is it?
Tony Rush
-------------------------------- Want to go on a vacation that's completely paid for? Watch this online video: http://www.therushes.net/cancun/
These are just my beliefs. I am just stating what I know from personal experience and what my beliefs are.
I see nothing wrong with a bonus, I just think $1000 is excessive for a $495 product.
The goal with Liberty League Reps, as I understand it, is to bring someone in with the $1495 package.
If you bring someone in at the $49.95 you earn nothing. If I am correct for the $49.95 they get a business kit(?) and website their first month. From then on they pay monthly for their site ($30 a month, unsure if this is the correct monthly website charge).
Here is how I understand LLI pay plan:
When someone joins at $1495:
1)5 Sales Roll Up 2)New rep's $1495 program purchase counts as the first - $1000 goes to new rep's sponsor. 3)Then new rep's team/upline knocks out 2 sales for them (Not sure where these (2) $1000 go). I do know they don't go to the new rep. 4)Then the new rep has to sell 2 that roll up to their sponsor before they start earning - So another $2000 goes to their sponsor...new rep earns nothing. 4)Basically, new rep's sponsors earns at a minimum, $3000 from the new rep's first 3 sales..new rep earns nothing until the 6th sale of the $1495 program.
If New Rep doesn'tt join with the $1495 program:
1)New Rep has to do all 5 sales on their own...sponsor/upline does not knock 2 off for new rep. New rep earns nothing on these 5 sales. 2)All 5 of new rep's first 5 sales roll up to their sponsor who earns $5000..new rep earns nothing until their 6th sale.
Correct me if I am wrong on any of this, but that was how it was explained to me.
My thought is this...why would I want to sell 2 or 5 $1495 programs and not earn anything? Just not a comp plan that appeals to me.
Sponsors do leave companies for just the situation I mentioned earlier. I believe you left your previous company because you believe the earnings opportunity to be greater with Liberty League.
No hard feelings here Tony, we just don't see things the same way.
We can debate this all day, but honestly, our views are simply different. Nothing else. I am not upset or making things up. I am just stating my beliefs and what I know to be factual.
posted March 29, 2005 05:52 PM
Diane said, I understand. But, beliefs are like clothes: if they don't serve you or they're not accurate they can (and need) to be changed. As I'm understanding your comments, your beliefs are just not based on a clear understanding of how value/price works.
That's not being presumptious. And I don't think that "everyone" needs to be in LLI. Other quick comments...
quote:I see nothing wrong with a bonus, I just think $1000 is excessive for a $495 product.
Again, this is a perfectly valid opinion. But, when you see the impact that this product has on people's lives (as I have in mine and hundreds of others), then you understand that it's not a $495 product. It's a million dollar product.
With all due respect, you're hung up on "cost of goods" when you need to be looking at value.
quote:The goal with Liberty League Reps, as I understand it, is to bring someone in with the $1495 package. If you bring someone in at the $49.95 you earn nothing. If I am correct for the $49.95 they get a business kit(?) and website their first month. From then on they pay monthly for their site ($30 a month, unsure if this is the correct monthly website charge).
This is entirely correct. As with any legitimate business, no one earns a dime until a product is sold. That's true in Melaleuca, LifeForce, Prepaid Legal, Amway, AMS, Ameriplan, etc.....and the same is true here. And the product we're selling is a 90-day home study course about mindset and how to improve any area of your life by understanding how mindset principles work.
quote:Here is how I understand LLI pay plan:
When someone joins at $1495:
1)5 Sales Roll Up 2)New rep's $1495 program purchase counts as the first - $1000 goes to new rep's sponsor. 3)Then new rep's team/upline knocks out 2 sales for them (Not sure where these (2) $1000 go). I do know they don't go to the new rep. 4)Then the new rep has to sell 2 that roll up to their sponsor before they start earning - So another $2000 goes to their sponsor...new rep earns nothing. 4)Basically, new rep's sponsors earns at a minimum, $3000 from the new rep's first 3 sales..new rep earns nothing until the 6th sale of the $1495 program.
This is half correct. From the new enrollee's standpoint, they only need to enroll TWO people in order to become fully qualified at the Beyond Freedom Level. The third sale they make is a $1,000 profit for them. From that point on, no one will ever make a dime when you sell a home study course.
quote:If New Rep doesn'tt join with the $1495 program:
1)New Rep has to do all 5 sales on their own...sponsor/upline does not knock 2 off for new rep. New rep earns nothing on these 5 sales. 2)All 5 of new rep's first 5 sales roll up to their sponsor who earns $5000..new rep earns nothing until their 6th sale.
True. This is definitely not the best way to go. Not because of the finances but because of two basic problems:
1. You're selling a product that you have no personal knowledge of. 2. You don't have the benefit of the information in that course. You'll be building a business with whatever mindset you've presently got.
quote:Correct me if I am wrong on any of this, but that was how it was explained to me.
The best place to get an accurate explanation is to attend a free, live overview call or to go to http://www.libertyleague.com/start and watch the online pay plan video.
quote:My thought is this...why would I want to sell 2 or 5 $1495 programs and not earn anything? Just not a comp plan that appeals to me.
And that's perfectly ok. The reason I like it is this: Once I passed those two sales to my Advisor (this took me about four days), then I was instantly qualified and completely in the profit zone. No one will ever earn another dime on any of my efforts at this level. I earn a whopping 67% commission on every course I sell....not a tiny 3-10% on a certain "level".
Plus, each person I bring in will also refer their two sales to me. Do the math on this. At $1,000 per sale, it's pretty easy to see how a small organization of, say, 20 people can actually result in more than $100,000 of income.
Of course it's not everyone's cup of tea. Some people prefer to work at the $50 level where they need several people just to break even on their own product purchases. It's not for everyone.
quote:Sponsors do leave companies for just the situation I mentioned earlier. I believe you left your previous company because you believe the earnings opportunity to be greater with Liberty League.
That's true. With the same amount of time and effort I was spending in another business, I easily saw that I could spend the same amount of time earning far more money.
Do the math in any home-based business and see what it would take to hit a $250,000 a year income. (Most networkers never do this because they don't have a belief system that will allow them to think on these levels). In Liberty League, you can reach this level of income with as few as 50 people in your group.
quote:No hard feelings here Tony, we just don't see things the same way. We can debate this all day, but honestly, our views are simply different. Nothing else. I am not upset or making things up. I am just stating my beliefs and what I know to be factual.
Well, hopefully I've pointed out the errors in your understanding about the pay plan. But, like you, I have no hard feelings at all. This is obviously not something that you would have any interest in doing and I wouldn't advise you to get involved against your best wishes.
One interesting part of Diane's objection is that she might hesitate at having her first two sales roll-up, regardless of the commission she is earning and the fact that she would never have share the commissions of the beyond freedom course. However, she probably would happily join a more traditional company where she does earn commissions on her first sale, but she will have to share a bulk of her commissions on every sale she will ever make, from the first sale to the 1,000th sale.
Doesn't make a lot of sense logically, but that's why I'm not in the convincing business.
quote:One thing to remember about research and learning the facts about any company. When the answers come from a distributor those answers are designed to "Sell" you on their product/service.
Hmm....I agree that's often the case. But is anyone doing any "selling" here? From my point of view, it's just a discussion. You seem to be implying that one can never get an objective answer from someone who's affiliated with a company.
Quite candidly, I'm not here to recruit anyone. I've got more leads now than I have time to contact which is why I give alot to my team. I come to message boards for conversation and dialogue. But, if the conversation and dialogue turns to a discussion of my company, sure I'm more than happy to make sure that the facts are being represented. But, no, I have no interest in "convincing" anyone into my business. That creates a baby-sitting job I have no interest in.
quote:The harder the "sell" the more likely the facts are colored by recruitment.
I agree that's often the case.
quote:I think those who question the cost of this type of operation over the value perceived are smart.
I think due diligence is always a good idea. If someone listens to a live overview call and visits the website and doesn't see the value, then I absolutely agree 100%. They shouldn't get involved.
But, the company offers a 100% refund on the product. It seems to me that if the product wasn't what we say it is, we'd get alot of people requesting their $1,500 back. Thus far, I've not processed a single refund.
posted March 30, 2005 02:24 PM
Tony, the day you aren't selling one of your opportunities would be interesting.
Not that there is anything wrong with promoting yourself and opportunity. That's the name of the MLM game.
After 20 years of MLM research I rarely believe any distributor's claims for anything without due research and investigation at to the validity of the claims and opportunity.
And if I were interested in MLM, neither of these opportunties are anything I could recommend.
Granted there are a few people who have the selling skills to make it work---most do not. It is a tremendous investment for a questionable product for anyone who doesn't.
Laying any kind of rhetoric on people because they disagree or are not interested is not professional and only lends to the hype that surrounds the industry.
Joyceb
[This message has been edited by joycejj (edited March 31, 2005).]
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posted March 16, 2005 10:44 AM
