posted February 18, 2004 07:13 PM
Hello all: I am a guy and have been looking at this Disciples Cross thing, too. I decided to create a thread devoted to it because the current comments on it are buried deeply in another thread. It appears this may be a legitimate home assembly opportunity. If so, this will be a revelation, considering the reputation with these things. Anyone who finds out more about this opportunity or who submits product please share your experiences. http://www.disciplescross.com
posted February 19, 2004 12:32 PM
I just got registered today and I'm not a WAHM yet, but I'd like to be. I too am very interested in Disciples Cross. I can't imagine that it would be completely fraudulant considering the founder is a psuedo-celebrity (Survivor) and that he's the head of a church, but you never know. I recently read a post by a woman who said she had already sent away for the starter kit. If you or anyone has tried this, please let us know! Thanks!
Here is a post I made on the other thread, but thought I would include it here. ----------- I called and spoke with Pastor John directly. I asked him point blank, "What's the catch." and he told me that there really isn't one. He's not in the business of "selling kits" or "selling supplies" like some other craft assembly "opportunities". He sounded very honest and forthcoming about the opportunity. Don't forget, you also have the opportunity to sell these yourself, even if you don't sell them back to him. He said he set up the kit so that even if you only decided to sell what you received in the kit, you would still make a profit. Even if it was only at $5 each and these could easily sell for 10. He told me that they ordered several of the "opportunities" out there and tried them for themselves. They found that most of them took forever to make and you wouldn't make any money, not to mention most of those companies have such outragious quality requirements they are usually always denied. He said he even shows you on the video how you can make one in under five minutes (I'm guessing that's after you are used to doing it). And that by making one in under five minutes you can average $15 (or something like that) an hour. So, even if it takes you twice as long as him, 10 minutes, you can still end up making $7 per hour.
I also asked him - point blank - about the law suit. He said that was a good question and we was very honest about it. He said there was some trouble in the church where he was working. He took this issue directly to the people that were involved before filing the suit, but didn't get any resolution. He told me that the only way for it to be "on the record" and be able to have the allegations looked into was for him to file a lawsuit. According to him, he did not file this lawsuit just to sue the church, but to clear his name. It was determined that there was a misappropriation of funds, but he was not the one to do it, and now it is on the record.
He also said that if I could remember where I saw the post of that article mentioned above to let you know that you can call him directly and talk to him about it.
So, after speaking with him, I felt much more comfortable about this opportunity. I ordered my kit today and am hoping that I won't get burned, again, too, like many of you have. Let's hope this is all it appears to be.
posted February 20, 2004 05:45 PM
Thanks for all this info. Please keep us posted on how it turns out.
quote:Originally posted by CameronsMom: Hi everyone:
Here is a post I made on the other thread, but thought I would include it here. ----------- I called and spoke with Pastor John directly. I asked him point blank, "What's the catch." and he told me that there really isn't one. He's not in the business of "selling kits" or "selling supplies" like some other craft assembly "opportunities". He sounded very honest and forthcoming about the opportunity. Don't forget, you also have the opportunity to sell these yourself, even if you don't sell them back to him. He said he set up the kit so that even if you only decided to sell what you received in the kit, you would still make a profit. Even if it was only at $5 each and these could easily sell for 10. He told me that they ordered several of the "opportunities" out there and tried them for themselves. They found that most of them took forever to make and you wouldn't make any money, not to mention most of those companies have such outragious quality requirements they are usually always denied. He said he even shows you on the video how you can make one in under five minutes (I'm guessing that's after you are used to doing it). And that by making one in under five minutes you can average $15 (or something like that) an hour. So, even if it takes you twice as long as him, 10 minutes, you can still end up making $7 per hour.
I also asked him - point blank - about the law suit. He said that was a good question and we was very honest about it. He said there was some trouble in the church where he was working. He took this issue directly to the people that were involved before filing the suit, but didn't get any resolution. He told me that the only way for it to be "on the record" and be able to have the allegations looked into was for him to file a lawsuit. According to him, he did not file this lawsuit just to sue the church, but to clear his name. It was determined that there was a misappropriation of funds, but he was not the one to do it, and now it is on the record.
He also said that if I could remember where I saw the post of that article mentioned above to let you know that you can call him directly and talk to him about it.
So, after speaking with him, I felt much more comfortable about this opportunity. I ordered my kit today and am hoping that I won't get burned, again, too, like many of you have. Let's hope this is all it appears to be.
posted February 20, 2004 07:52 PM
Julie: That was an excellent post and I commend you on having the guts to ask him point blank those questions. I hope your invesment in this proves to be a good one. We need some more feedback as time goes on when items are submitted and see how he pays. That will be the deciding factor, I think, for many of us to get involved. Please keep us updated. Thanks. John
posted February 23, 2004 03:07 PM
thanks Julie for that very informative post I like a lot of people here have been thinking about doing this but of course I am skeptical, when you talked to him did he say anything about the buy back policy I guess that is why I am worried because in past ladies post with different companies it seems the people never buy back the stuff they always say it is not good enough.
Good luck and I hope for once this is not a scam since we are just trying to find legit jobs to help out our families!
Yes, I did ask him about the buy back policy for the very reason that you have mentioned. I have heard the same thing about other opportunities.
He said that they are not like that. He said they do buy back the necklaces and their checks DO cash. He said that their product is not so hard to make that you won't make any money, nor are their qualifications so strict that every one you make will get rejected.
Remember, though, I have nothing to go on but his word. My husband said that's what makes con artists, con artists, they are good at convincing people. I still tend to believe Pastor John. We'll see.
I would encourage anyone who has questions to call him. He is very open and honest about this opportunity. If you do, please post after you've talked to him what your experience was.
Here is his number 985-781-2675
I'm still anxiously awaiting my kit, and will let you know when I get it.
Julie
------------------ True success means helping others find success! ---------------------- For information about The Disciple's Cross Work-at-Home Business Opportunity: http://www.disciplescross.com/offer.php?offer_id=267
posted February 23, 2004 07:39 PM
Just got an email that my starter package shipped! I'll let you know when I get it.
Julie
------------------ True success means helping others find success! ---------------------- For information about The Disciple's Cross Work-at-Home Business Opportunity: http://www.disciplescross.com/offer.php?offer_id=267
posted February 23, 2004 10:52 PM
thanks Julie I think I will call him tomorrow and try to think of other questions we haven't asked so I can get more info.
Did you check out the post about Christian Minatures that john posted?
It sounds pretty good too, I might check into that.
posted February 23, 2004 11:25 PM
I sent him a very thorough email inquiry tonight. Not that I don't want to call him(I am not afraid of him), I just thought I'd send an email first and see what he says. I basically asked everything we are concerned about. When and if he replies I will post his responses. I also mentioned our website and our thread so he can see how everyone is investigating this. Maybe that will keep him in line, who knows. He does seem to send the kits out pretty quick and I know a lady near me who is presently putting the crosses together and I assume she will submit them soon. The proof of the pudding will be the paycheck, of course. We will just have to be patient. I am going to wait awhile until we get more results of this, although I have to admit I am leaning towards legitimacy for this program. By the way, I have been "studying" the home assembly field for years. I have found about 90% do not cut it. But there ARE about 10% that are legit. How long they stay legit is another matter. Sometimes you have to strike while the iron is hot. I am thinking of starting my own folder here on the website for Home Assembly opportunities only. I will post only those I feel are legitimate based on my stringent requirements. No guarantees, of course(none in life, lol), but I will do the best I can for us all. In return, all I ask is that everyone share their experiences freely so we can really get down to the nitty gritty on this industry, if you want to call it that. John
Thanks for all your efforts. We need to "stick together". I know too many of us just looking for a legitimate opportunity have been raked over the coals. I'm really hoping this works out, because I don't only look at it as a "job", but a ministry. I'll probably sell some of them on my own, in addition to selling them back to Pastor John.
Would love to see the fruits of your research. I'd much rather be doing something that I can do in any room of the house, opposed to just sitting at the computer for hours at a time typing. While I'm working at home doing that, it still takes time away from my family.
I know exactly how you feel. I felt the same thing too. But, I figured even if he doesn't buy them back, I would sell them at craft shows. I also am starting my own scrapbooking business and plan to do some craft shows in the Spring and Summer. So, I thought they would be a nice item for people that wanted to get something but not spend a whole lot of money. Besides, even if I only get my investment back, I won't feel cheated. And I do think these will sell.
Here's what I'd like to do. If any of you buy the kit and he doesn't buy them back from you, I'll take them "on consignment" and sell them for you when I do the craft shows later this year. How does that sound? At least if you aren't into doing the craft shows, you could still get your money back for the kit, if it doesn't work out any other way. Just my way of helping out others that want to work at home.
Any thoughts? Julie
------------------ True success means helping others find success! ---------------------- For information about The Disciple's Cross Work-at-Home Business Opportunity: http://www.disciplescross.com/offer.php?offer_id=267
posted February 24, 2004 04:27 PM
Julie...looks like our orders went out in the same shipement. I am really hoping it doesn't take 14 days to get here...I am thinking 2 or 3, since I am in Mesquite and main UPS hub is here in town. I will post back when I receive it and watch the video.
Also that is a great offer that you made if it doesn't pan out. Thanks.
Someone above (sorry I can't see those posts at the moment) said they had already received their package. Could you give us an update?
Gina
[This message has been edited by ruwina (edited February 24, 2004).]
posted February 24, 2004 07:19 PM
Thank you all so much for posting your information and what you've done to research this opportunity. I am also very interested and especially pleased that Cameronsmom has offered her services to help us sell if we don't continue in the program. Thank you! Jek1862 (John), thanks for doing research for this also. You are a great bunch and people and very helpful. I check this board everyday!
posted February 25, 2004 01:41 PM
julie I think that is an awwsome thing for you to offer to sell them for us if it doesn't work through him!
Have you received your materials yet?
I think I am going to do it too , I like what you said that you are doing it as a mininstry that is how I feel I figured since I love Cross's that it would be nice to share with others God's amazing Love and the importance of the Cross!
posted February 25, 2004 07:14 PM
I received my package today. The crosses really are neat looking. I haven't attempted to make one yet but I did watch the video and it is pretty informative on the 'how to' portion.
Also a side note I logged into the member area of the Disciple's Cross and there is a straightforward listing of the reasons items would be rejected. They all seem very reasonable.
posted February 25, 2004 09:45 PM
Donna: I haven't received my materials yet, but am eagerly looking forward to getting them. After just seeing "The Passion of The Christ" today, I'm even more determined to make this work.
Gina: Thanks for the info. I can't wait to get mine. I'll keep you all posted.
Julie
------------------ True success means helping others find success! ---------------------- For information about The Disciple's Cross Work-at-Home Business Opportunity: http://www.disciplescross.com/offer.php?offer_id=267
posted February 26, 2004 06:44 AM
Another thing I forgot to mention:
I have several wholesale account with craft/scrapbook distributors. Once I get my kit and can figure out the supplies needed and the cost, I'll let you all know if it would be cheaper to get the supplies through the wholesalers I have accounts with. We can arrange to do some group buys then and maybe save even more.
Julie
------------------ True success means helping others find success! ---------------------- For information about The Disciple's Cross Work-at-Home Business Opportunity: http://www.disciplescross.com/offer.php?offer_id=267
posted February 26, 2004 11:49 AM
Hi all! I posted in the other thread, I also ordered the kit... UPS routed mine wrong so it was delayed but it is now on its way here and I will get it Monday. This was a UPS mess up not Pastor John's fault in any way. I am looking forward to selling some back but I sell Herb Blends that I hand craft and do large craft shows throughout the year so I am also going to see how they sell at those. I will be hitting some of the local Christian Bookstores as well to wholesale them hopefully. I will let you know my experience as I have been following this thread as well. Lets stick together! Also, I have a website for my herb business that I am in the process of revamping as I have changed my packaging, etc for the new year. I also am beginning to do wedding, bridal and baby shower (etc) favors, if you know of anyone getting married/having showers or babys who wants a unique favor to give their guests have them contact me. I also wholesale and do private and corporate gift baskets. My website, again, is being revamped so some of my products are almost gone that are on there and I will be replacing them with new, updated items for the 2004 season. www.apple-tree-cottage.com.
Thanks for the info re: Pastor John/Crosses. Will keep you posted.
posted February 26, 2004 05:54 PM
Hello, I just made my first cross...whoa...it is definitely not pretty But I think it should get better with time. Having the proper tools is VERY important. My needle nose pliers are too wide at the tip I better make another trip to walmart
posted February 27, 2004 11:44 AM
Got my kit today! These things are adorable! I'm hoping to get some made over the weekend. Will let you know how it goes.
Julie
------------------ --------------------- For information about The Disciple's Cross Work-at-Home Business Opportunity: http://www.disciplescross.com/offer.php?offer_id=267 -------------------- ******************************************************************* Now playing in theaters nationwide... A Mel Gibson film "The Passion of the Christ" http://www.thepassionofchrist.com/ http://www.passion-movie.com/
posted February 27, 2004 05:47 PM
Hi John, > Thanks for the email. I checked out the WHAM website - WOW! What a great > site. I didn't know there were things like that out there for people who > want a work-at-home business. It's like everyone is watching out for each > other. That's terrific! I read every post from the discussion about > Disciple's Cross and I appreciated every one of them. I remember talking > with Julie and she was accurate in how she conveyed our conversation. I > enjoyed talking with her and would have liked to talk longer but I had > another call come in and another one on my cell phone at the same time. > > Also, you might be interested in checking out the new updates on our > website. My producers are having so much success selling these little > crosses themselves at $5 to $10 that I can hardly get my inventory built up > to where I need it. So what I've done in order to give the producers an > incentive to send their finished crosses back to me is change the "cost" of > the starter kit to a "deposit" which is refundable after a producer sends in > their eighth unit for payment. I hope this will boost my inventory some. > > Think about this, John. If you don't like the start up kit I will refund > your $69.95 within 30 days. (In fact, we sent a refund back this week for a > lady who said she broke her wrist after she ordered the kit. Ouch!) If you > do like the program I will refund your $69.95 after your eighth unit of 50 > crosses that you send in to me (as long as they pass inspection - which, by > the way, we keep about 90% of what comes in after the test units are > critiqued). So if you don't like the program you get your money back...and > if you do like the program you get your money back. Where's the catch? > There is none. Like I said, I need people to help me make these crosses. I > could sell a warehouse full of them if I had them. > > FYI, here's my business (and life) philosophy. It comes from Numbers 30:2, > "If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a > bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that > proceedeth out of his mouth." If I give you my word on something I will do > it even if it costs me money or is an inconvenience. My reputation is not > for sale. Few people live by that degree of integrity that's why most > work-at-home opportunities really are scams. I'm not saying your shipment > of materials will never be late or that I'm going to accept every cross you > make. But if you make good crosses I will pay you for them and we will run > our business as efficiently as we possibly can and we will never lie to > anyone for any reason. Am I perfect? Ha, ask my wife, she'll clear that up > in a hurry. But I am honest and I do unto others as I would have them do > unto me. Simple, corny and too good to be true - but that's who I am. > > God bless & happy crafting, > Pastor John Raymond (This is an e mail reply I received from Pastor John. I thought all would be interested in reading it. Comments??)
posted February 27, 2004 06:56 PM
Thanks for posting that. It just confirms the impression I got of him when I was talking with him. What do you think after having gotten that response from him?
Julie
------------------ --------------------- For information about The Disciple's Cross Work-at-Home Business Opportunity: http://www.disciplescross.com/offer.php?offer_id=267 -------------------- ******************************************************************* Now playing in theaters nationwide... A Mel Gibson film "The Passion of the Christ" http://www.thepassionofchrist.com/ http://www.passion-movie.com/
posted February 28, 2004 02:46 AM
My comment is... Praise God! I was nervous at first too and I am so glad to hear that Pastor John has the same ethics I use in my business. I can't wait for my kit to get here Monday!!! Praying for everyone to have success with this. Thanks for all the postings. Hugs!
posted February 29, 2004 06:35 PM
Donna: Just sitting down this evening to attempt my first cross. I'll let you know how it goes. I think it might take a little getting used to, but am sure once you get a "groove" going, it will become second nature.
Julie
------------------ --------------------- For information about The Disciple's Cross Work-at-Home Business Opportunity: http://www.disciplescross.com/offer.php?offer_id=267 -------------------- ******************************************************************* Now playing in theaters nationwide... A Mel Gibson film "The Passion of the Christ" http://www.thepassionofchrist.com/ http://www.passion-movie.com/
posted February 29, 2004 08:31 PM
Ok, right now I'm a little frustrated. My hands are sore and I still don't have one completed cross. I can't figure out the "trick" to getting the wire to sit close together and pull it tight enough.
Anyone else made any and have any advice. I'm going to stick with this, because I'm sure it will be ok. Luckily, I have some wire from my other crafts that I can use for the stuff I've messed up.
Julie
------------------ --------------------- For information about The Disciple's Cross Work-at-Home Business Opportunity: http://www.disciplescross.com/offer.php?offer_id=267 -------------------- ******************************************************************* Now playing in theaters nationwide... A Mel Gibson film "The Passion of the Christ" http://www.thepassionofchrist.com/ http://www.passion-movie.com/
posted February 29, 2004 09:35 PM
My fingers were sore the first day too. I think I was pulling too hard. I have completed several but i don't think that they will pass inspection. A few would be close and then I would mess up and scratch it at the very end...how annoying.
Have you watched the video? It doesn't look like he is putting a lot of tension on the wire. The ones that look the best for me were ones where I used my left hand to pull for tension and my right thumb to guide the wire as it comes around the back (if that makes any sense
From watching the video...I think that Pastor John is left handed, it all sort of seemed 'backwards' to me. LOL
posted February 29, 2004 09:45 PM
okay you guys are scaring me I haven't ordered the kit yet but was going to tomorrow but after listening to you trying to make them it seems they are not as easy to make as he says.
please keep us posted on how things are going for you!
posted February 29, 2004 10:22 PM
Donna: Don't let us scare you. I'm a perfectionist and am probably putting too much pressure on myself. I won't be satisfied until I get mine to look exactly like the two examples he sent.
Also, remember there is always a learning curve. I'm sure that as we continue to make them we will get better and faster. I'm sore because I'm using my hands/fingers and arms in ways that I haven't before. That will take some getting used to, too.
Pastor John makes it look so easy, but we have to remember he's been doing it for over 10 years. He's got it down to a science.
Gina: I'm not sure about how much tension to use. I know I was pulling very hard on the wire. I've watched the video several times and watch it with each step. I'm waiting for a response to an email about something else I sent to him, so when he responds, I'll ask him about that too and let you know.
Also, I don't know if I'm getting that bend on the top (for the cord loop) right. I'm having a hard time with the 90 degree bend after forming the loop. I might be making the loop too big.
posted March 01, 2004 10:36 AM
I just received my Diciple's Cross box and I am going to watch the Video and attempt my first Cross. After reading these posts I'm also getting nervous if some of you are having trouble. I hope it just takes practice and if any of us have questions about how to do something we can ask each other and help one another out. Good Luck to all who are making these crosses!
posted March 01, 2004 02:09 PM
Good News...after putting the crosses down for the weekend the first 2 I made today turned out perfectly Well, at least close to perfect...lol. I guess the process had soaked into my brain
Julie, that 2nd 90 degree bend it tricky for me too. I have had a hard time making it consistant. Do you just have regular needlenose pliers or do you have the longer type that he uses in the video? I wonder if that would help.
Gina
[This message has been edited by ruwina (edited March 01, 2004).]
I only have regular needle nose pliers. I can't find the long-neck ones.
I'm really discouraged today. Now I know why they allow you send in 10-20 for your first (test) shipment. They probably figure you'll be lucky to get that many out of your kit that are good.
Luckily, I have some wire here I can use to play around with so I don't waste the good wire, but I'm down to 18 sets of nails. I wish I could find the pliers he shows in the video.
Also, when you are twisting the wire, can you see the nail through your coils? I'm having a hard time getting it close enough together that you can't see the nail through it.
posted March 01, 2004 09:59 PM
Hello All! I got my Disciple's Cross Kit today and I made 2 crosses. The first came out better than the second. The angles on the center of the cross on the completed samples are much tighter than mine came out but over all I think it wasn't bad but it took me an hour and a half to make 2 while watching the video. Like he said, He bends a bunch of nails then wraps wire when he has some free time. I think that way it would go much faster. My fingers are sore too and I will try purchasing the same plyers and vises he has to see if I can get it down faster. Hubby says they are available at all hardware and home improvement stores. Another note is that if your wire is very close but still not exact, the dip acrylic will help to make it appear closer--does that make sense? Esp with 2 coats. That is the only part of it I really don't care for. I am wearing my first one and I will keep it for myself as a reminder of the opportunity that the Lord has brought to me. Gonna give it my best shot! I wish you all the best as well. Blessings! Sharon
posted March 01, 2004 10:25 PM
Julie and Gina, Hello, I am having trouble with the second 90 degree turn on the top of the cross. My loop is to big and I can't get it to look right. I have looked for the long nose pliers that Pastor John says you can get at Wal-mart or Kmart in the floral deparment that are used for cutting flowers and I can't find them. I'm going to try another Super Wal-mart on Tuesday to see if I can find some. Any suggestions on how to make the top of the cross turns for the leather cord please let me know. Thanks!
posted March 01, 2004 10:51 PM
Julie- most of my later attempts the coils are pretty uniform and close to gether. There are a few spots though that aren't. Sharon might be right about the dipping process lessening the appearance of the spaces.
As for the pliers... I too was not able to find the long necked ones. The pair that I had were too thick. Today I found a kit at walmart in the floral section $10 and a similar kit in the tools section for $7. It has a 2 wire cutters, a curved pliers, a small needle nose, and a flat pair of pliers. They seem to work well, the tip is small enough but I can still get a good grip on the nail.
Do any of you have any ideas what the name of the nails are or what they are used for. I tried looking for some at lowes with no luck.
posted March 02, 2004 07:21 AM
I found the long-neck pliers that he uses at Michaels (a craft store) in the floral section. I haven't tried them yet, but I'm hoping that helps. Actually, the bend I am having the most trouble with this the one after making the loop, between the loop and the nail head. My vice grip plier don't seem to have as much of a curve as his do and when I try to make that bend, it smashes the loop.
I was wondering about the dipping process helping that issue, too. Thanks for mentioning it.
If you find the nails, too, please let me know. You know you can order just nails from the website. I think they are $5 for 100 or something like that. I would be nice to pick some up localling to have.
Also, just an extra note: be sure to take the tab off your video so you don't accidentally tape over it.
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posted February 18, 2004 07:13 PM
But I think it should get better with time. Having the proper tools is VERY important. My needle nose pliers are too wide at the tip 
I better make another trip to walmart